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Not too mention those air mixture screws. I have seen a carb be completely clean, and the person didn't clean those air mixture screws saying "oh those don't need cleaning they are just there to adjust"....smh okay so yeah they do that but some also have holes in them as well that need to be cleaned. Also clean that airbox as well over time in a year there can be mouse nests in there. Also you never said if it had VES Valves if it does you need to clean those as well. Those being gummed up can cause issues.
 

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What engine are you working on. Most 600 twins don't have the drain plugs that BC Dan was referring to. Coolhand gave a very good in-depth description of carb cleaning. Maybe I missed it but nowhere have I seen in the posts what machine and engine you're dealing with.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
So if there are no drain plugs, does anyone have an alternative idea as to why the machine stopped turning over by trickling fuel into the cylinder heads?
 

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Once again do you have VES Valves? If so clean them. Have you checked out the fuel pump? If not then take it apart and clean it carefully. Make sure there is nothing wrong with any of the parts inside. Also did you clean those air mixture screws. You didn't say when you posted other then you recleaned carbs. Are the floats level? Did you clean the needle/jet? All things to consider. Can you take a picture of the engine area, all of those sleds came with shut off valves installed from factory. Maybe someone removed it if so that needs to go back in as well. Clean the airbox also as a precaution over the years or summer mice like to leave stuff in there. Check the grounds as well. Look for any flayed wires. With compression at 110 you should start. You need compression, fuel and spark. You not getting fuel so fuel pump or carb related or if it has VES Valves in front of the engine above the exhaust manifold like what is pictured below, if you have them and they are stuck it won't fire either. While this is an Polaris Indy 800 the picture shows not only the shut off valve but the 2 black areas above the exhaust manifold where the VES Valves are.

Also another thing to consider, are the fuel pump lines going to the carbs correctly, the crankcase and the fuel tank. If those are not correct that will cause issues as well.

65213
 

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Were you putting straight gas or mixed fuel into engine? With the spark plugs out can you turn the engine over by turning the clutch with your hands? If you filled the cylinder full of fuel just before it got to top dead center you could have hydrostatically locked the engine. Then a hard pull on the starter rope can result in a bent connecting rod.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I've had some success, but there's more work needed to make the starting more reliable and to make the sled run better.

Before I get into this, I'll answer your questions.
  1. I don't know if I have VES valves because I don't know what those are. I'm a noob. I can tell you that I have is this setup.
  2. I did clean the air mixture valves. Also cleaned the needle. Probably the only valve that didn't get pulled/cleaned is this one:
  3. I did check the fuel pump. I disconnected the gas line and pulled. A decent amount of fuel came out so I assume its working. I have not cleaned it., but I did just order a rebuild kit just in case. Will probably rebuild it just because it's important and old.
  4. regarding floats... I didnt take them out. I saw many videos talking about this brass flange that needed to be level, but my floats do not have such a brass fitting. They seem to just be plastic floats that pushes a pin on a spring up and down. Everything seems to move smoothly. There are no adjustments or pieces to bend, so I think this is operating normally.
  5. The only kill switch I can find is located on the handlebar as a push/pull square toggle. Its been in the proper state while trying to get this running. Meaning the switch is not set to off.
  6. Fuel lines appear to be wired correctly.
  7. I put a gas / 2cycle mix into the heads. A mix I use to run a 2 cycle weed-whacker.
As for the success. After re-cleaning and reassembling the carbs... the sled still wouldn't start.

Prior to this re-cleaning, I had installed a battery from my working sled, and learned the starter does work so long as the battery is strong enough. So, I turned the sled over with the key and again nothing. Choked, un-choked... nothing. Tried again and a little gas and violah... it started. Stayed running as long as I gave it gas, but stalled about a minute after ignoring the throttle.

So this is where I'm at.
  1. I need to figure out how to get this to start better, and without the key. Key is great and im happy the starter works, but It should work with a pull too. And it should start better and more reliably. Any suggestions?
  2. When running, smoke was a little black. That means it's too rich right? I think this means that I should loosen this air-mixture valve a turn a time. Sound right?
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I should clarify one thing.... I wouldnt have been able to start this by pulling. I only had success because I could turn the engine with the key AND give gas on the throttle. Its a bit hard to pull and throttle at the same time. This feels bad. If the starter or battery goes (perhaps its cold weather affects), I need to be able to start this over with a pull.
 

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Yes you have VES Valves. I posted a picture above. VES Valves are above the exhaust manifold and are black. Those need to be cleaned every year before the season starts and sometimes during the season. Also I can tell you as well someone broke off the shut off valve for the fuel. Okay I highlighted in red exactly where the VES Valves go and where the fuel shut off valve should be. Also WHY does it look like there is butt connectors on some cables near the carb? Those should not be that way, looks like someone rigged up a quick fix. IF those are the throttle cables they need to be replaced. That could be part of your problem.

Also I want you to go to this link, Click Polaris and read through the service manual called Polaris 2001 High-Perf Snowmobile Service Manual. This will tell you EXACTLY how to clean those VES Valves and to replace that fuel shut off valve along with having to replace those cables.


or a direct link sometimes that works sometimes you need to click Polaris then the name of the service manual you want.



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Discussion Starter #52
very helpful. Thanks.

Regarding the butt cables you asked about... I think you're looking at painters tape I used to wrap around the cable housings to identify them. both fuel and choke cables seem to work well.
 

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Be very careful removing those valves and the gaskets as they are really expensive from OEM. Now there is an upgrade on those but ICR which color the upgrade is. Dan knows exactly which one it is, if you have the bad ones you should do the upgraded gaskets for it as they do help.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
whoa... those things were a mess. black oil inside the plungers and the knives wouldnt come up without serious force. Sadly, the gaskets are shit, so I'll have to order new ones.
 

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There is something that is an upgrade on those. Not the gaskets but a round rubber gasket inside of it. If those wouldn't come out easily then you may have found your problem. That engine won't run unless those can move. Make sure you clean everything thoroughly. I have never done it so Dan will be able to explain a lot better on those.
 

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The forum has a lot of good info already posted. This is for an 800 but the 600 is the same. Most of the previous problems with the VES system were in the 800 engine, as there was very little cooling around the valves in the cylinder and the high performance caused enough heat that the original aluminum valves had issues melting in some sleds. I'm not aware of the 600 ever having similar issues. I've had four 600 polaris engines with the VES system and they worked well as long as they were kept clean.

The bellows issue that Coolhand refers to is also a big block issue. I have never changed a bellows or had one damaged on any of my 600's either.

Any of the valves will be filthy oily when disassembled, that is some of the 2-stroke oil that did not get burned in the exhaust. Make sure the small holes in the cylinders that push up on the bellows are clear, too. When you take off the cover of the VES assembly, the top side of the bellows should be clean and the spring should be rust-free.
 

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When my 1996 polaris indy 500 would not start i took it oe problem at a time till i found it. My problem was a bad fuel line in the tank. That was after i replaced a misding sparkplug boot and put new plugs in. Took a few times to get it started. But when it did start it ran good. Make sure you have good gas in the tank to
 

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It has already been running. But it has since stopped. If it isn't going to run with gas down the cylinder it definitely won't run with good gas in the tank. Not too mention with the VES valves being so stuck he had to use a lot of force to get them out, that tells me quite a bit right there that the previous owners didn't do the maintenance like they should. Those valves need to be cleaned yearly before the season and sometimes during the season. I am betting that was part of the problem along with the fuel shut off valve being broken off as well. That could be closed as well. He needs to replace that also as that is a good thing to have installed, especially when traveling
 
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