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Burn Baby Burn !!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi, i noticed today on my ol' cat that the oil adjustment might be a bit more "optimistic" than normal... as in adjusted in a way than it gives out more oil.. atleast i can blow my engine.

i started inspecting things after i noticed that last sunday, at 32 degrees outside it was more sluggish out of the hole.. i got stuck in deep snow and when i got it out, i was holding it at WOT and it wouldn't go above 5500 RPM... i installed a temperature gauge last year and it was showing 115 120 degree F.. it never goes above this.. it does once i stop for 2-4 minutes, and goes to about 150 F then i start it up again the and the gauge goes back to 120 F but it was "not so bad" when cooler temperatures came.... the plug are kinda black a bit..


i did the carbs last month, and even got a better clutch spring since i changed the clutch and all is well on that side.. i got it to 80 MPH and i can say it enever went there before the changes i did... it idles perfectly, it got LOADS of power ( i know, its not an F7 but still ) above 4500.. but below that, its like driving a CR 125, no gut till mid range and up.. all the way to 7800 - 8000

since the carbs seem well adjusted, i played with the mix screw and it didnt seem to like it when turned it in to try to make it leaner a bit to test.. the idles became higher and didnt have the same sound.. i dont want to blow it so i put it back where it was.

so can getting too much oil cause this? its about 10% more than it suposed to at idle and at WOT. or the fact that in hangs out at a low temperature?

in not technical words, i dont think a 440 LC twin carb, at WOT, should go : BOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH......

notice: the snow starts ripping where the first A comes .

does anyody have an idea?

Fr0st
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
it always been that way, since the day i got it. that would be last year.

it's hard to explain.. it's like if i take off normally, i wont see the diffrence, if i put 50% throttle ill start to see it.. but when i floor it, i see there is lag..

lets say im on hard snow,and i floor it from stop, it will take about 1 second before something starts to happen..the rpm rises the minute i floor it.. but the power comes after 4K. and trhen it will rip the snow 60 feet long.. i floor it at 45MPH and it rips so furiously that the back of the sled will slide rom side to side from the lack of traction.


it's like in the week between xmas and new year, i was with firends in a cabin in the woods and we had only 2 sleds for 6 people. i took a ski trailer behind me( something thats not that heavy) to carry people.. there, i could really see, while riding slowly in the woods that it lacked power at low RPM... while going up a hill i would floor and it wouldn't even rip the snow.. and not go over 6000 RPM... but with the trailer off, at the same hill, it will rip the snow all the way up to the point of not having enough traction..and this at 8000 rPM..

the thing is i dont know if it's normal.. since i can compare to anyone around here.. the sled got a reverse and is a 1989.. its a heavy cat i know.. but should it take off faster ?

should i check compression? it seems to have good compression, and idles evenly. its just that below 4K not much happens...but then wham! power is up and going up to 80 MPH..


can too much oil be doing this?


fr0st
 

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I am Spartacus
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23,863 Posts
I don't think it's too much oil. It could be dirty carbs, mis adjusted slide needles, wrong size pilot jets, etc.
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
could it be low compression ?

im gonna adjusting the needles tonight. should i go higher on lower to start with? as i can remember when i cleaned the carbs a month ago the needles were in middle groove.

Fr0st
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
you see thats the problem, i dont know if its lean or rich since it goes REAL well from 4500 rpm and up.

im pretty sur the jets were not played with.

either way i have no choice, its either lowering the needles or getting them higher.. and by the colour of the plugs its gonna be lowering them.. any special thing i must watch for when i go to test it?





fr0st
 

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I am Spartacus
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23,863 Posts
Is it when you first take off? Maybe the pilots aren't the correct ones. Do a compression test just to be sure.
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yes it is.. it lags a bit below 4K once im off you wouldn't even notice it.. if i ride 50 miles it will be ok all the way... only at take off id does this.. and it gets worst when 2 on the sled or pulling something behind thats heavy.


ill get a compression gauge tonight and post what i got here.. last year i opened it up and the pistons and rings look pretty nice.. no marks not signs of wear..

anyway.. first things first.. compression check and then the needles.

ill post it up here tonight.


Fr0st

thanks alot :)
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ok, heres the news, i got 120 psi on each side, VERY even compression.

now to my knowledge, 120 is ok.

i noticed while going through the rest of the sled that my secondary clutch spring is on the second notch to the minimum. when i got the sled it was on the first. i put it on the second and it seemed better... what should be the best or standard notch for it? it certainly cant be the minimum one right?

maybe i should try another notch higher. since it's on the second one and im still reaching 80.


any other ideas?


Fr0st
 

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Frost, I have encounteres the excact same problem with the same sled.(89 Pantera).Actually, the same prob on 2 sleds.Both were/are not mine.

The first machine was my uncle's.I tried to solve his prob over the span of 2 seasons.His got to the point where it would load up so bad that it would't pull itself in the woods trails.(Real slow going/warm days)
I did everything imaginable to the carbs.Jets, needle settings, replaced needle jet and needle.We installed new pistons,rings etc.
Nothing really fixed the prob and he sold it.

My neighbor,also a good friend of mine, also has one of these 'ol Panteras and is experiencing the same problems with his.

After a lot of discussion and brainstorming, we've decided to go into the reeds.Its the only thing we didn't try on my uncle's .I think they may be the steel type and are probably worn or one may even be broke.

hope this helps, I think those old Panteras are one heck of a machine, I hate to not see them not working right;)
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
did the reeds do it ? did it fix the problem?


well yesterday, i tryed moving up the up the needles and moving them don as well a notch. both gave terrible results...im beginning to think you're right .. since the cabrs and pipe is alright, i have 120 PSI compression on both cyls, there are no strange noise in the drive train I.E. chaincase reverse assembly, it reaches 80 MPH... but in deeps snow or when its warm, it just wont go... until 5000 rpm... then it blasts off.. and as colder it gets the better it gets.. but not enough


i might try the reeds.. before ''I'' sell it too


Fr0st
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
im not familiar with reed valves but know they give more low end torque.. i checked on brown leisure and found some for my year-model.. but where do you install them ? in the intake ports of the cylinders?

Fr0st
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
are those easy to change ? why do i need to do ?


why do i get the feeling thqat the EX owner removed them?.... :mad:
 

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Okay, the reeds in your machine aren't as easy to change as most.Your engine design was only used a couple years.The reeds are located at the base of the cylinder.That means you have to pull the jugs off to get at them.This is why we didin't do it on my uncles machine(I wanted to, he didn't)My neighbor travels for work lots, so I haven't talked to him to see if he's gonna go at them or not.

I dunno what else could cause the problem, but I could easily be wrong about this.I'm only trying to help.

My neighbor claims he had info showing the HP for your 440 at approx 80, a fair bit more than the later 440 L/C.

Anyhow, good luck and have fun!
 

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Burn Baby Burn !!
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
well, for this year i migfht let it like this as i won't have much time to touch it till spring..too much work... so if i keep it i will do them, otherwise i might do like your uncle and sell it ... might go for a big bore for th next one.. and something with more deep snow capabilities... but it should be an A/C none the less :)


thanks for the info kingmort and Smallengineguy , you have enlighted my problem.. atleast im getting close it to a solution.

Fr0sT
 
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