[savoy1]

Hi there, i bought a e380 touring E cheap from a guy who said it won't stay running.
This is my first snow sled, the learning curve is rather steep....and expensive so far.
I can't even get it running to find out whats wrong.
I got it to sputter on ether in the sparkplug holes.
But pull starting is very hard for me.
Installed a battery but starter was frozen, so I installed a starter to discover the bendix doesn't reach the ring gear.

Found a chunk of shattered clutch sheave in the belly pan, looks like the clutch blew up and he swapped in a used unit with a smaller diameter ring gear.
I can find the correct ring gear used. 84 tooth, 417222859.

My question is, if i buy the the ring gear will it fit the clutch I have ?
Or do I need a complete primary clutch.

Thanks for any help.

 

[BC_Dan]

I'm not a ski doo guy, so am just making a SWAG... I'm thinking the clutch that is there now is not the correct clutch. It may fit the PTO shaft but may not be the same diameter as the original. How many teeth does the gear that is in there have? That may tell you. I'm betting you will need a clutch.

Good luck! And for the starting problem, clean the carbs. Twice. There are small fuel and air passages that go to the starting circuit in the carb, they get gunked up pretty easily and can make starting impossible. Starting with spotless carbs will give you a chance to get it adjusted so it starts easily.

That is where I would start...

 

[savoy1]

I'm not a ski doo guy, so am just making a SWAG... I'm thinking the clutch that is there now is not the correct clutch. It may fit the PTO shaft but may not be the same diameter as the original. How many teeth does the gear that is in there have? That may tell you. I'm betting you will need a clutch.

Good luck! And for the starting problem, clean the carbs. Twice. There are small fuel and air passages that go to the starting circuit in the carb, they get gunked up pretty easily and can make starting impossible. Starting with spotless carbs will give you a chance to get it adjusted so it starts easily.

That is where I would start...

Yeh I suspected as much.
I will count the teeth .

Do you suggest new kits for carbs or just clean, seller said he cleaned them but who knows.

 

[BC_Dan]

Kits are not normally required, there are not many moving parts inside. You need to disassemble completely, including the pilot jet (the one up the tube) and clean really well. Sometimes the spray cleaner does not get rid of all the varnish that the alcohol-infested fuel leaves. I take a soft wire and poke it up into all the holes to help dislodge the junk. I also make sure the pilot and main jets are spotless, especially the pilot jet. And if the needle jet can be removed, it's a good thing to clean completely, as well.

I have had to replace the inlet needle/seat more often than other parts, that seems to be more common. When you disassemble, if the needle has a ridge on it, it may be time for replacement. But usually, just cleaning works pretty well.

There are a lot of good videos online and a few threads in the "how to" part of the forum to guide you. Cleaning carbs is a yearly ritual, anyone that has a sled should become comfortable pulling, cleaning, replacing, and adjusting the carbs.

 

[TheBearAk]

I have to agree with BC_Dan on this, sounds like the clutch is the wrong one. Maybe from an earlier 377 motor that had a different taper on the shaft.

Post a picture of the clutch. I owned a 1996 Touring E and know just about every nut, bolt and rivet on the whole sled. The 1996 originally came with a Comet "bell" style clutch.
When mine went bad, I bought a used TRA. It made a big difference on how it would go through the snow. At the time, I was just tired of messing with the electric start system as it always seemed to have a problem, so I didn't transfer the ring gear. My nephew has the sled now and put the e-start back on it, along with reverse kit for his GF to ride.

Anyway, even with the TRA, the ring gear lined up just fine, so I would suspect the taper is off, which would mean your clutch alignment is also way off. Clutch might even wobble slightly.

Hard starting... 3 primes, hold throttle at 1/3 and pull until it fires. Use primer to keep it running. Takes about 2-5 primes (not all at once, one at a time before it dies) before it will run on its own.
To hold the throttle slightly open, I usually just stuff my glove in there and be quick to pull it out when it fires.


Note: that it will take longer to start it with the electric start. The reason for this is because the e-start turns the motor over at about 400 RPM, where a pull start turns it over around 600-800 RPM.

 

[savoy1]

Kits are not normally required, there are not many moving parts inside. You need to disassemble completely, including the pilot jet (the one up the tube) and clean really well. Sometimes the spray cleaner does not get rid of all the varnish that the alcohol-infested fuel leaves. I take a soft wire and poke it up into all the holes to help dislodge the junk. I also make sure the pilot and main jets are spotless, especially the pilot jet. And if the needle jet can be removed, it's a good thing to clean completely, as well.

I have had to replace the inlet needle/seat more often than other parts, that seems to be more common. When you disassemble, if the needle has a ridge on it, it may be time for replacement. But usually, just cleaning works pretty well.

There are a lot of good videos online and a few threads in the "how to" part of the forum to guide you. Cleaning carbs is a yearly ritual, anyone that has a sled should become comfortable pulling, cleaning, replacing, and adjusting the carbs.

Ahh yes, I'm familiar with those carb problems, my 150 hp outboard had 6 carbs.
I just pulled one, quite dirty, junk in the bowl and varnish.
Gave it a hot ultrasound bath, carb spray, ran wires thru all jets, removed everything, then blew it out with air gun.

The small pilot jet inside the bowl, unscrewed it and it has holes along the side similar to an emulsion tube in old briggs carbs. But the hole from end to end does not show light, is it supposed to go all the way through?
I have some micro drills if need be.

 

[BC_Dan]

I may let TheBear weigh in on that... I do not want to give you any wrong advice! But most jets do have a hole in both ends. You should be able to poke a small wire through. If it was a jet up a tube (pilot jet), it should have a passage for fuel through the jet. That is the one that gets clogged. Try the wire to see if you can verify there was a hole there once... The ultrasound cleaner is a good choice, especially with the gas we get these days!

 

[savoy1]

I have to agree with BC_Dan on this, sounds like the clutch is the wrong one. Maybe from an earlier 377 motor that had a different taper on the shaft.

Post a picture of the clutch. I owned a 1996 Touring E and know just about every nut, bolt and rivet on the whole sled. The 1996 originally came with a Comet "bell" style clutch.
When mine went bad, I bought a used TRA. It made a big difference on how it would go through the snow. At the time, I was just tired of messing with the electric start system as it always seemed to have a problem, so I didn't transfer the ring gear. My nephew has the sled now and put the e-start back on it, along with reverse kit for his GF to ride.

Anyway, even with the TRA, the ring gear lined up just fine, so I would suspect the taper is off, which would mean your clutch alignment is also way off. Clutch might even wobble slightly.

Hard starting... 3 primes, hold throttle at 1/3 and pull until it fires. Use primer to keep it running. Takes about 2-5 primes (not all at once, one at a time before it dies) before it will run on its own.
To hold the throttle slightly open, I usually just stuff my glove in there and be quick to pull it out when it fires.


Note: that it will take longer to start it with the electric start. The reason for this is because the e-start turns the motor over at about 400 RPM, where a pull start turns it over around 600-800 RPM.

Wow this place has deep experience.
I'll post a pic of the clutch, can't find any numbers but it says AVIS and theres a rotax stamping.
I cut the old belt off, seems a lot easier to pull through now.
Been trying to remove the clutch using the bolt and water, have to buy the tool.
I plan on installing a gas filter before filling the carbs again.

 

[TheBearAk]

That might take some doing if my eyes are not deceiving me, but that looks like a clutch off an 80's machine, maybe even 70's, like an Alpine.
Pretty sure it is not the original. Might want to look at the color of the spring inside too. Should be a stripe on it.

I think we need to verify the year. The 1995's were different from the 1996-1997s in many ways. If it says it was MFG in 1995, it is a 1996.

To give you an idea, mine had about a 4-5" space between the tub and the end of the clutch. This one looks to be about 1". Which means it isn't all the way on. Plus the moving half is wider.

Do you see a part number on that clutch anywhere? I'd be curious to nail it down better.

 

[TheBearAk]

Checked with my brother on the clutch, he says that is the same type of TRA that I put on mine. So it should fit just fine. I think the angle of the picture makes it look wider to me.

 

[savoy1]

That might take some doing if my eyes are not deceiving me, but that looks like a clutch off an 80's machine, maybe even 70's, like an Alpine.
Pretty sure it is not the original. Might want to look at the color of the spring inside too. Should be a stripe on it.

I think we need to verify the year. The 1995's were different from the 1996-1997s in many ways. If it says it was MFG in 1995, it is a 1996.

To give you an idea, mine had about a 4-5" space between the tub and the end of the clutch. This one looks to be about 1". Which means it isn't all the way on. Plus the moving half is wider.

Do you see a part number on that clutch anywhere? I'd be curious to nail it down better.

Definitely not the original, I found chunks of the original clutch in the belly pan.
Theres visible damage to the pan where it exploded.
The end of the clutch is extended because the crank bolt is removed, I've been trying to get the clutch off to examine it closer, no luck. Heres a quick video.

 

[savoy1]

date stamp on the side of the tunnel. Nov 95.

 

[savoy1]

patent lookup shows it patent applied March 1986.

 

[savoy1]

Checked with my brother on the clutch, he says that is the same type of TRA that I put on mine. So it should fit just fine. I think the angle of the picture makes it look wider to me.

good that saves me buying another clutch.
Do you think the larger ring gear will fit this clutch.?

Working on carb #2, pilot jet clogged by grit barely bigger than a grain of sand.
both carbs had clogged pilot jets. Wouldn't stay running he told me.

 

[kccats]

Yep thats the sign!
The next one is a hole in the piston!

 

[savoy1]

Yep thats the sign!
The next one is a hole in the piston!

hahah steep learning curve , these sleds are as bad as boats.

 

[Coolhand]

lmfao no...boats are worse usually! I lived on the Kankakee River most of my life, had jet skis, pontoons, speed boats with outboards and I/O, even was a service & parts manager at a Marina in Florida by Sarasota and went through Merc, Yamaha, OMC and a couple others for schooling. Boats are always worse then snowmobiles imho. I will take working on a snowmobile all day long compared to a boat about 90% Unless it is an I/O those are easy to work on or used to be till all the damn sensors and what not,lol.

 

[savoy1]

lmfao no...boats are worse usually! I lived on the Kankakee River most of my life, had jet skis, pontoons, speed boats with outboards and I/O, even was a service & parts manager at a Marina in Florida by Sarasota and went through Merc, Yamaha, OMC and a couple others for schooling. Boats are always worse then snowmobiles imho. I will take working on a snowmobile all day long compared to a boat about 90% Unless it is an I/O those are easy to work on or used to be till all the damn sensors and what not,lol.

I'm just more familiar with boats I guess.
Used to live on siesta key in sarasota, nice place. Northern Maine now.

 

[Coolhand]

Lived on Siesta Key myself, apt was right on the beach that I shared with others. Awesome place to live when you are 23 years old.

 

[savoy1]

I'm gonna ignore the starter,
carbs are spotless,
I pressurized the gas tank and drained a pint of fuel through to the feeds lines at the carb into a bottle, good to go.
2 fuel filters and a shutoff valve.
I'll clean clutch faces ,install the new drive belt,
sync the carbs (they're rather staggered now) and see if it starts any easier than before.