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Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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86 yamaha phazer help

Good evening everyone, I am having problems with my old phazer an I am in need of some advice. The problem is, it doesnt seem to rev past 5000rpm on a hard packed trail. it kinda feels like it just runs out of power. When I have the track in the air, it will easily rev up to red line, with a very very slight pause at the 5000rpm mark. It starts great, idles like a dream, and takes off hard, (it even picked the skiis off the ground once)
Here is a list of everything I have done to it so far. I have cleaned the carbs several times, new fuel pump and fuel line, triple checked that the plugs in the carb are in the right holes, new spark plugs, cut the wire back on the spark plug boot, new belt, cleaned the clutches, checked the clutch alignment, it has a 5/8 off set. Checked the track tension, checked the Y pipe for cracks, fresh gas, removed the oil injection, unhooked the grip warmers as I read somewhere they can cause an issue, cleaned all electronic connections i could find,the track spins fairly easily by hand, but is definately harder when the belt is on, which I thought was normal.
Im sure there is more I have done, but just cant think of it at the moment. I have a parts phazer sitting here so if someone has any thoughts on something else I could try I sure would like to hear it. Is there anything specific that happens at 5000rpm that would make it stop there, or pause there when the track is in the air? Thanks so much in advance, i am looking for all and every idea i can get.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Check the clutches.
Verify that they are functioning properly and that the springs are not shot or broken.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think it has to do with your clutches could be worn out springs and such..I could be wrong but that's my guess.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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ok thanks for the reply, I have cleaned the clutches to the best of my ability, the primary clutch looked good, the weights moved freely, the rollers were not worn or sticky, and the spring was not broken. Although I dont really know if the springs loose their, , , spring, over time, and Im wouldnt know what to look for other than the spring is not broken. I cleaned the secndary the best I could, when the problem persisted, i pulled the secondary off the parts sled and tried it with the exact same results
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Take a jiffy marker and with you belt off mark a line inside both clutches from top to bottom. Install your belt and go for a ride up to the point of it not revving past your 5000 rpm bring it back in and take belt off and check your marks and see how much are left. I may be wrong but your primary should be mostly gone except for a little bit at the top.. Secondary not quite sure I'm pretty sure same with the secondary..If a lot of line left the clutches arnt opening and closing right...
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well thankya sir! I never heard of doing that. I will give that a shot and see what the outcome is.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Another thought, would this year of sled have the T.O.R.S? I think maybe at one time it had electric start as the key turns as if it would. But behind the right cylinder, there is a group of cut wires there. I just taped them up as I assumed that they were for something else. I would guess there is about eight wires there that r cut. Would it be a good guess that these wires would go to a removed battery/ starter/ etc?
Does anyone have a wiring diagram they could email me or something to figure out if maybe somethiung got cut that shouldnt have been cut?
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes it does it you look on the carbs should be couple wires hooked up to it if not they could be hooked together and have been bypassed.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Alright, I have an update to my little delema, unfortunately, not the one I wanted. Its been one of thoughs sleepless nights so out to the shop I went, and started digging into the dang thing again, I double checked a few little things, spark plug gap, connections, etc. and then took it for another ride just hoping that maybe it fixed itself while it rested. It did the same dang thing, took off real strong, just the way I would expect it to, and leveled off at that 5000rpm mark. Its silly that I didnt try this before, but i flipped on the choke, and off she went again, the way I would think it should, last I looked I was doing just over 100kph. So, back to the shop I went, took the last tiniest bit of carb clean I had and tried to spray it around the carb boots. I didnt have much to twst it with but I thought I heard the rpm drop, so I went and pulled the boots off the old one and tried them with the exact same results, then I tried the "crossover tube?" that comes out the top of the two carb boots, still acted the same
I have been racking my brain on this and may be coming up with stupid questions but here they are. I bought the sled running the way it is, and there is no history on it. It does have an aftermarket single pipe, I took the air box off and replaced it with the foam slip on filters. With it running the way it is is there any chance of it being jetted wrong? I cant even read the jets that are in it now, (poor eyes)
I have read some people have found that they have a cracked block, or the crank seals are toast, but wouldnt it run inconsistantly if that was the case.
Well once again I look forward to hearing all input you guys can possibly throw at me. I guess the bonus is I know it isnt anything to do with the clutches
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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86 yamaha phazer help

If you were able to pull the choke level and it ran that tells me something is plugged in the carb. Possibly jetted wrong for the pipe. I know that I couldn't see any markings on my main jets either. I'm not sure how to tell what size jets you have. My spring on my primary clutch was worn out. My sled would start creeping at about 2200-2400 rpm range. I replaced the primary spring with a new one and that solved that problem. Did you confirm that the tors was unhooked?


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Old 01-18-2013, 11:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok, now you need to look at plug color and piston wash to verify proper jetting.
This means that you would make a run as you have previously and not use the choke when it gets to the bog. Just hit the kill and keep the throttle where it is until the engine stops.
The pull the plugs and see the electrode color.
Use a light and look into the cylinders and see if there is a clear spot about the size of your thumbnail in the center of the piston top.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I will try that test next chance I get, although I thought I had it dialed in pretty good before. i checked the plugs several times before finding the choke helped, and they always seemed to be that nice chocolate brown, I never did try looking in the cylinder though.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Alright, so I took the sled out, held it to the pin for a ways, hit the kill switch and held my thumb on the throttle until I came to a stop. When I pulled the plugs, they were both dry, brown color with the slightest grey tinge to it. The sled had some type of after market pipe on it, so I swapped it out with the stock one I had here, thinking maybe it was creating an issue, cleaned the carbs,,, again. Completely stumped, I couldnt see down in the cylinders to see if there was any piston wash
I am far passed confused, by the color of the plugs, it appears to be running right where it should, yet flipping on the choke gives it a whole 2000rpm more,,,, so, at 5000 rpm, would it be possible that something is letting go, allowing more air, and robbing it of power??? I have swapped so many parts on this machine im not even sure which one im workin on anymore. Anyone has a suggestion, fire it out there, would love to hear them. Thanks to all thoughs that replied already
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i didnt read everything but your last post my freinds indy 500 doese similier to yours as per choke cable, one of his plungers was sticking and not adjusted properly
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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based on your trials thus far, you have a carb issue. dont rule out the choke plungers as well as the adjustments for them.

when you "cleaned the carbs again", did you verify that the airjet on the airbox side is unobstructed? are the choke circuits clear? if you spray carb cleaner or air into either of these openings, does it exit elsewhere? 2 carbs so thats x2 on either circuit.

where are the butterflies at when you pin the throttle? both open the same? next time you have the carbs out lay them on a flat surface first intake side down then engine side down. any racking ?
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I was fairly confident I had all passages clear, but will pull them out and make sure all is clear. As for the choke, I have cleaned them, and checked to make sure they were both at the same height, and dropping all the way down, however, I will check them again as well. Thanks so much everyone, keep the ideas flowing!!
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yamadad4, I don't really understand what you mean by racking, if you wouldn't mind explaining that to me it would be much appreciated and I will check it next time I'm working on it
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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sometimes the carbs can twist in the bracketry that holds them together and throw off the synchronization.

they should sit flat on a flat surface, check both sides. if they are racked, those stock screws in the brackets are in there tight and they are soft and strip easily. the factory applied loctite doesnt make matters any easier.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok, so I pulled the carbs and checked for racking, they were off a little bit so I got them straightened out. My next question is, I noticed the choke plungers that are on it have just a flat bottom with rubber on them, the plungers from the parts machine have needles on the bottom of the plunger. Are these just different designs, or is it possible the needles on these got removed at one time? Would it be better to use one or the other?
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Flat is fine, just verify that they are not hardened so that they will not seat properly.
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Vintage (sorta)
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1980 AC Pantera (donor engine to the 90 wildcat)


http://www.dcdrifters.net/


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