dpawl31

Just picked up a 1997 Yamaha VMAX 600 XT for $700.

Turns out - rear shocks are blown, and it's got some issues with the wheels.


My biggest issue right now is the shocks. I can't find anything cheap to replace them, NO used ones online from what I can see... I guess this is the ONLY model that had the PROACTION PLUS suspension, all the other vmax's had another version.
I was told that the PROACTION PLUS was the only rebuildable shocks... yet even if they ARE, I can't convince any shop around here to DO IT, because of the old parts and such...

Basically, I am fine with a few options:
1) Someone tell me if I can aquire parts myself and rebuild them (doubtful)
2) Someone lead me to a factory replacement, or aftermarket part that is ~$100 a piece give or take (also doubtful)
3) Offer me a similar length/size shock from another model that is easily available on the used, say ebay, market for cheap.
4) Tell me I am SCREWED and need to purchase the $400 / piece shocks from Yamahapartshouse.com

I really hope I am not screwed here... thought I got a good deal when my buddy went up north to pick it up. Runs GREAT... needs a center rear wheel/bearing/circlip and also a bogie from the middle lower half of the track (only one on one side) and need to replace bearings. Speaking of that, do they make a full bearing kit for the skid assembly?

Most of my work has always been under the hood, the whole skid/track/wheels etc. are a mystery too me, as is removing the shocks where they sit. REALLY worried I got screwed Sold my Mach 1 for $500 needed rear suspension as well, and carbs gone through (never ran good except WOT) and a new muffler or patch the hole...

Someone please save me! My stress level is sky rocketing... ready to just crank the spring preload up and ride it that way all winter...

PS - doesn't seem to be much out there at all on this sled - but I did register with a website to read an article they did back in october 1995 stating that the XT model was THE vmax to buy, that the ride quality and overall fit and finish were superb... so much for my ride quality!

Here's the sled, 8am after pickup @ 10pm the prior night, this is my friend shooting the video...

yamadad4

schmidt brothers(989-756-2150) or bruce at pioneer performance(716-496-2150) can rebuild those shocks and probably make your budget. give either one a call and discuss it with them.

bruce is in new york state and i dont know how the big storm has affected him.

best to remove the entire skid to access the shocks. while its out you can easily address the other issues your concerned with.

check your choke cable as well. that should have 2 positions and it looked like you only had it halfway on. i also noticed it didnt seem to release properly. sticking plungers or weak springs perhaps.

dpawl31

Thanks a lot! I called Bruce first as you seemed pretty knowledgable of him.
Phone # is not in service. Either the storm, or he's not there anymore?

Anyway I looked up Scmidt Bros website, they list a service for $110/pair for the front TSS shocks. I can only hope they'll charge the same for the rear! I called and left a very detailed voicemail with them. Hope to hear from them!

Do you know if the SKID is the same as any other VMAX's? Did they change JUST the shock, or the whole suspension system? From what I've read, the 96 XT 600 is the only one with rebuildable, PROACTION Plus shocks. Then again, that was only ONE forum, and ONE guy saying it...

I am worried about removing the entire skid, I've never done any work on the rear of a sled, only the front hood. Will try and find a repair manual, usually I can get them at tradebit for cheap.

As for the choke, I haven't even touched it myself yet! haha. He took that video, so I'll have to ask him about it. I store it at his house. If it was only halfway on, maybe that's why it took 6 pulls, LOL! After it fires up for 20seconds or more, it'll start first pull.

dpawl31

OH! BTW... do you think I got screwed paying $700 for it, and $50 for gas to go get it? I thought it was a good deal...

I had a 93 Mach 1 670 that had a 617 swapped into it, with blown suspension, wouldn't idle for more than 20 seconds, some of the electronics seemed to be incorrectly swapped, fouled plugs like nobody's business, PIG to get started... then blew a 5 inch hole in the exhaust. Sold that for $500... keep thinking it was a bad move selling / buying the vmax. But I've always loved yamis, this thing runs GREAT... all the lgihts work, electronics are all stock and look good, stock motor etc...

Grudman

I had the same sled brand new back in the day. It is a one year skid. But that thing is awesome in the powder and even on the trails.


Check ebay\\\\


Yamaha XT600 Rear Shock Absorber | eBay


Also make sure to get a rebuild kit for the front suspesion.

__________________
1997 Arctic Cat 580 Efi Deluxe

Grudman

dpawl31

Thanks Grudman, downloaded a repair manual and says nothing specific about the rear shocks... seems the skid for the 500 XT in 96 was the same as well? So I need shocks for a 1996 500 OR 600 XT... but if it's not 96, and it's not XT, it won't work.

The shock you listed doesn't specify XT at all If I get a response from Shmidt Bros, and they can repair them, I'd much rather drop $100+ or so on rebuilding, than trust an old stock shock ya know? I've been all over ebay, tried many combos, even been as broad as VMAX XT and VMAX SHOCK etc... went through everything, nothing works.

Thanks for the help, hope I can get her rideable soon. Sounds like you really liked this sled! In one way, I wish I got a 94-95, or a 97-98 lol... but the old review I found from October 1995 on the brand new 1996 vmax 600 xt, said they made LIGHTYEAR strides in suspension perforamance in 96, to go as far as rating it 9/10 for handing and ride.

Just crossing my fingers and hoping for a call back from Schmidt Bros!

yamadad4

yep, that skid is a one year only and the improved upon for 97. entirely different than the standard models and i dont recall parts interchanging between the 2.

removing the skid isnt all that bad of job. worst part is freeing the bolts. re-installing can be a pain and an extra set of hands can help. no problem walking you through it. once you do one you will find its not so bad.

gave you the wrong number for pioneer. try this one:716-496-8800. i hear he was unaffected by the storm and up and running.

dpawl31

Well I actually got ahold of Scmidt Bros. today, and I talked to at length about my model. He said he's VERY familiar with it, and they ARE rebuildable. When I said "you listed repairing, valving and filling the front shocks for $110/pair, is it about the same for the rear shocks?"
He said yes, dependant on parts. So if I can get away with shipping and repair $200... I'll be pumped! He told me he can sell me replacement plastic bogies instead of the aluminum, and the bearings as well. Considering most people will try and sell you everything for a price, it was nice to hear him tell me I can pickup the bearings at a local hardware store nice and cheap.

So, thanks for their number! I told him if I get such a good deal on the bogies and shock repair, I'll definitely be back to him next season for his TSS shock tube repair service, and rebuild of the front shocks as well. He's going to be my go-to guy now that I know how knowledgable he is on this model, and so fair on the pricing!

As far as the removal of the shocks, and dropping the skid, I would definitely appeciate a general walk through on it. I assume it's going to throw off track tension and alignment etc... but it will be good to get in there, find all the grease points etc.

So when you can, I'd love a quick walk through! The repair manual I downloaded covers 1994-1998 and is 1400 pages! It's not that easy to read and tough to know what applies to my model.
I have to remove them ASAP and get them shipped out. Thanks again!

yamadad4

dont be afraid to compare pricing, i would. pioneer wont do the tss struts.

depending on what manual your using, there was a supplement specific to the xt's, but probably not much info to concern yourself with.

if your comfortable with the track tension and alignment as it sits, after you loosen the rear axle nut, simply back the adjusters off equally and note the number of turns. lets just use 10 as a random number. if you loosen the right ten full turns, do the same for the left. upon reassembly, simply re-tighten to whatever number you used.

on those skids, and pretty much any yamaha skid, an impact wrench whether electric or air will be your friend. you have steel bolts into aluminum shafts and the shafts will/can spin. theres a few tricks there if this happens.

i typically start at the rear and work my way forward. you should have three bolts per side, possibly a fourth if it has the upper crosshaft supporting the track.

do each side as you move your way forward. in other words, get both the rear bolts out on both sides, then to the center for both sides, ending at the front.

once the skid drops, its a wrestling match working it off the track as it likes to hang on the track's drive lugs. some folks like to lay the sled on its side, i dont. an extra hand is nice. if you happen to have one of those cheap thin plastic sleds that roll up that your kids use, strategically placed between the skid and track makes it slide in and out easier.

once the skid is out, the shock removal is simple. dont be afraid to use penetrant like pb blast, wd, etc.

once the skid is out, you may find some worn parts and some bushings needing replaced so dont be alarmed. also a good time to celan and lube everything while your waiting for the shocks.

let me know if i can assist you further.

dpawl31

I guess the main thing I am confused about is the cogs up front. They are INSIDE the skid, so the the track goes AROUND them, and those are fixed to the jackshaft, yes?

Basically I guess I don't get how the skid DROPS OUT, if it's still attached by the from cog assembly?

Very helpful tips though, thanks for that! I'll have to read over the manual some more.

1on3off

The skid isn't connected to the driveshaft. The cogs and track stay in.


Sent from my iPhone using Snowmobile.com Free App

dpawl31

haha... just as you posted that I was watching some youtube videos and realized the skid isn't attached to the drive cog assembly at all... thanks though!

Watched the video below, I understood the idea of the skid dropping, but didn't realize it would just slide out the side, leaving the track in place. Very cool! Will probably attack that tonight!

yamadad4

easy part sounds like its about to end soon. holler when you get to the hard parts.

dpawl31

OK So I've been talking to Schmidt brothers a LOT, I have the shocks OFF, decent shape. Just some fudged areas on the thread from someone mucking them up while trying to adjust them.

Skid is off, going to figure out what bearings I need and get them ordered. Ordering small wheels from Schmidt Bros. (plastic ones) They also have a 4th wheel kit to add a fourth rear bogie wheel. I will be getting two new plastic for the inside wheels, and the 4th wheel collar kit. Unfortunately I can't ship the shocks yet because I am missing one of the collars, and he said they are a pain to get in and it is part of their rebuild service ($69.99/ea to rebuild/valve and fresh oil!) He's gotta charge me some time if they have to grind those gummed threads up a bit, no biggie.

He's also found some stiffening boards for the floor boards, but I think I'll hold off on those for now. The stock ones are very weak and flexible though.

yamadad4

unless your track is heavily studded, or you do alot of railing on the trails, you probably wouldnt need the 4th wheel on the rear axle. up to you.

if the board stiffeners are the solid rods you drive into the curl on the running board edge, from experience they really dont do much for the cause. the angle brackets that go partially up the tunnel as well as the footboards help, if attached correctly. depending on your riding style, the stirrups seem to be the strongest but i took them off as i was always hitting them with my feet.

depending on the thread damage, a beer, a file, and some patience may save you some money. another trick is to simply oil up the threads with some aluminum cutting oil and let the adjuster nuts re-thread for you. slow and steady is the pace here as is back and forth. you may surprise yourself.

dpawl31

Leaving the threads to the pros, most of them are at the top edge and I am fine with him just using the nuts to rethread or even grind it out. He says he's not worried one bit and it won't take long to fix.

The stiffeners are not the rods, I read about those and don't trust it. These were bolt on, that fix an RX-1 and he said they'd definitely fit, $44.95. But I am probably going to hold off on those anyway.

So he told me the 4th wheel kit allows you to ride harder with the track a bit looser. These guys are circle track racers. Going into a hard corner with a looser track so the drive cogs don't ratchet, that's the purpose he told me. It seems like a good idea to me. What do you mean "railing" on the trails? I am not sure what you mean by that. Basically it's $40 to get the new wheel, bearing, clip, and spacers needed for the 4th wheel. I thought that was a pretty good deal, but if you don't think it's really worth it I might skip it to make the other stuff a little less expensive.

yamadad4

railing the trails would be my equivalent to them circle racing. same principal, hard into the corners under throttle. i usually attribute track ratcheting to the lack of drivers or their efficiency on the drive axle.

interesting concept. really didnt see the added wheel come about until around 99 or so on the higher hp sleds and the modles were imited, but you guys ride a bit differently.

dpawl31

Yes I am very aggressive lol

Also talked to a local shop that orders food from me, he said the 4th wheel helps a lot with wear on the slides. Since I will be installing new ones, would be nice to keep them longer too! After all this I shouldn't need any service on the skid for a few years anyway.

Shocks shipped 2 hours ago, starting shopping for slides, wheels, bearings etc. now.

Grudman

Do your self a favor when you put new hyfax on. When you go to cut the rear ones angle them on a 45 it will reduce niose!

__________________
1997 Arctic Cat 580 Efi Deluxe

Grudman

dpawl31

So, cut them on a 45 for the rear end - should the exposed area be on the inside or outside of the rail?

Oh and BTW here's the video he re-took to show the choke in the FULL position, and a single pull start instead of 7 lol.