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Old 10-10-2012, 10:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Phazer Carb Problems

Last year after a short season of riding, my '89 Phazer ran a little weirdly so I decided to take the carbs out and clean them. It was my first carb job and I didn't really know what I was doing, I took them apart and then let them set all summer in the attic and now I'm trying to get it all together and running.

I put it all together once already and I had no luck getting it to run, so I figured I didn't do something right so I took the carbs out again and tried another run at cleaning/assembling. I got them together last night and put them in the sled and I had no luck getting the thing to start. So I have some questions.

I am missing one of the brackets that holds the carbs together, the sled ran like that all of last season so I know it's possible that it can work, but I wonder if I didn't get the two carbs out of sync somehow.

Inside of the bowls there are 2 plastic covers for the 3 jets, my question is which of the 3 holes do I plug with the 2 caps, right now I have it as plug-open-plug. Should it still be able to run like this? Do I need to open it up and change it?

I got the throttle cable on and it worked smoothly, but I am not quite sure how to assemble the other cable that looks like the throttle cable (I don't know the name of it or what it does). I kind of hooked it up, but I'm not sure if it's right, does anyone have a picture of what it looks like? I might be able to take some pictures of it when I'm done with school to show how I've got it.

Then there is the wire that plugs into something near the throttle cable. Again, I don't know what it is or what it does or how to hook it up, I tried it last night without it plugged in at all. Should it be able to run without it?

And finally, I was able to adjust one of the pilot screws, back 1 1/2 turns, but the other is broken off and I figured I should just leave it in there for now just how it was last season, I guess the previous owner broke that and never fixed it. I assume it will still run how it is though, maybe I'm wrong.

How finicky is the throttle stop screw? I have no idea how tight to have it.

Alright, hopefully some of these questions can be answered, and if I still can't get it to run I'll be buying another set from Yamadad. Let me know what I should be taking pictures of if you guys can't visualize it. Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Mine were 2 plugs by each other. Can't remember which side didn't have the plug but the middle one and one of the ones next to it were plugged. If that helps. Yamadad will probably know for sure
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Go to the how too section and read the carb cleaning section to begin with!
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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back up the boat a bit and lets define "no luck getting it to start".

did you check for spark? those wires attached to the carb are for the tors system. the carbs dont care if they are plugged in or not but the wires on the main harness do. simple test: dont worry about the carb wires but make sure the wires they would have been connected to are attached to each other to finish the loop. sometimes it takes many, many pulls with empty bowls to make it light. spark confirmation usually comes after about 10 pulls.

if the carbs are upside down in front of you with the larger airbox side throats facing your belly, the plugs go center and left on both carbs. right side is open. dont have a clue as to why the pilot jet is covered, missed that day in carb design 101, but it is important to have these rubber plugs oriented correctly. it should start if they are misplaced, but it wouldnt run properly or to its potential.

i assume your other cable is the oil pump cable. setting on this is crucial to the life of your engine. throttle stop screw? perhaps the idle? worry about this once you get the thing going. turning in raises rpm, out lowers.

back to the basics. confirm spark, confirm fuel delivery, go from there.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Well thanks for the responses and I didn't even realize there was such good info in the How To section, I'll have to read up on that more in-depth when I get some time. I did have time to check for spark, and to my dismay I didn't have any. I had spark about a month ago when I last tried to start it. One of the plugs looked bad so I will pick up a couple just to make sure I've got good ones.

Should I look at the wires for the tors system? I did plug them into the slot in the carbs, but should I follow them and see where they go? Is there a thread somewhere for the steps to get spark?
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you unplug the wires from the carbs, plug the harness ends into each other to bypass the TORS. This will eliminate that as the problem.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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may or may not be a spark thread, but bypassing the tors is your first step. there is a how to on the tors which should explain alot.

from there its a hunt. i have seen some peculiar things happen with the wiring on these and sometimes its just the effort to rule out a few items.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well I have some good news and some bad news. I bypassed the TORS and got spark right away, I was delighted. I poured some gas in the cylinders and the thing halfway tried to start, nothing substantial but more so than when I just pulled it. I tried this method a few times and then I realized I should probably make sure there is gas in the tank, so I poured in 3/4's of a gallon and tried some more. Then I realized there was a small puddle accumulating under the sled and it was gas! I found it dripping somewhere towards the tank near the oil reservoir. I couldn't figure out if it was leaking there or just dripping down to the point where I saw it. Now what? How would you guys start to tackle this problem?
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Sounds like one of your fuel lines may be leaking. If you take out the air box you will be able to see the fuel pump and all the lines. It isn't that hard to replace your fuel lines to eliminate that problem. Make sure it isn't running back out of your carbs(stuck floats or something in the carbs).
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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in addition to 1on3off's post, there is also a fuel line fitting located on the bottom front right corner of the fuel tank thats part of your fuel level indicator. the line that routes along the right side of the steering hoop. if your lucky, that may be your issue- a failed line.

loosen up the oil tank while your removing your airbox to inspect the other fuel supply lines. this ones a bit difficult to get to with the pipe in the way. you may want to remove the pipe as well.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It runs!!!

So I pulled the carbs, clans 'em again, put those plastic plugs in the proper spot (thanks yamadad) and put her back together.

The gas leak ended up being from the fuel gauge (just like yamadad said) that a previous owner had cut and plugged with a little rubber cap that finally crcacked and fell off. I fashioned another plug which fixed the leak.

I put the carbs in and it started once I gave it some throttle. It was really awesome! I was so happy. It won't idle to save it's life, but it runs fine when I rev it. Now I need to figure out how to get it to idle and make sure it's getting enough oil. I'll tackle that tomorrow, any suggestions? I'll also try to get some pictures up to reward you guys. Thanks so much!
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Here are some pictures. The one with the screwdriver is pointing to the leak, it's on the bottom right side of the tank. One of the pictures is of the old plug that was covering the hole, and the other picture is of my makeshift plug made with some old fuel line and duct tape. It holds together fine for now, might have to put something more permanent on it later.

So my new concerns are, am I getting enough oil mixed in and how do I adjust it? And how do I go about adjusting the idle? Thanks again guys! Made my day!
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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the idle is set by using the screw on the carb rack. its the white star looking plastic piece. turn by hand or use a #3 phillips. turning in, or clockwise increases the rpm. the idle adjustment works along with the throttle cable freeplay adjustment, also located on the rack just to the right of the idle adjuster. couple of 10mm wrenches needed here. you may have to go back and forth between the 2 adjustments to find the sweet spot. once you have these where you want them you can adjust the oil cable, but the idle and throttle need to be set correctly first. more on that later.

i wouldnt trust your fix on the fuel line. it needs to be secured better as that line feeds directly from the bottom of the tank and gas is expensive these days. i would suggest at the least to fold the hose over to kink it and put a hose clamp over the kink. this should prevent leakage and will hold up much better than a plug and tape if the line is still pliable.

i think you can make a new bracket for your carbs easily using some .100 or .125 aluminum flat stock, or even a piece of aluminum angle. both easily obtainable from your local hardware store. a little cutting, drill some holes, and mount it up. if the screws are missing as well, dont forget they are metric thread when replacing.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I would replace ALL the fuel lines incluing the pickup in the tank!
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:09 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'll look at it later today, but when I used the idle adjuster it didn't change a thing. My manual said in should make it rev higher, right? It didn't change a thing. With the freeplay, should I back it out a little? I had mine all the way tight.

And ya I definitely need to replace the lines, they are so brittle, it's just asking for more trouble. And ya I was wondering if it was possible to make a bracket for the top, would you put it on there while the carbs are in or would you take it out again to do that? And regarding my plug, ya I knew it wasn't perfect, I'll figure out a more permanent fix, thanks for the ideas.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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You can always replace the plug that was leaking with an actual fuel gauge. All it is, is a piece of fuel line going from the bottom right corner of the tank to the top right side of the tank. It is just a loop that hooks into the right side plastic piece by your knee. I can send you the diagram that shows the routing of all the fuel lines if you need it. Just let me know
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:26 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ya I thought about that too. It seems pretty straight forward and it would actually be nice to have a fuel gauge. Is it the diagram in the shop manual? I already have a download of it if that's what you were talking about.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willdeh2 View Post
Ya I thought about that too. It seems pretty straight forward and it would actually be nice to have a fuel gauge. Is it the diagram in the shop manual? I already have a download of it if that's what you were talking about.
It should be in the manual. I downloaded a manual that was aprox. 600 pages and it has every diagram for everything in it. I did mine and it was 1/4 ID line on that one. It wasn't too hard and you will have a working fuel guage when done. A lot of the other fuel lines are 3/16 ID though. Just letting you know so you don't over buy the 1/4 inch thinking it will work on all of it(speaking from experience Ha ha).
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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if you can accurately make a bracket, by all means put it on while the carbs are installed. you already figured out its a pain getting those in and out.

you need to take a closer look at your idle screw. it may be stripped or missing the lefthand thread locknut on the underside of the bracket.

basically you should have the adjustment screw with a spring go through the bracket with a nut on the underside of the bracket along with a spring and the adjuster screw should push on the black plastic tors switch. i have seen both the screw and the nut strip.

i could possibly make a template for that bracket if needed, or even make a bracket if you dont have access to material and equipment. for a nominal fee of course.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Leaky drain lines on the carbs was what melted the engine on my dads 1992 Polaris indy. You are luck the plug didn't fall off at full throttle! :O
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