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Old 11-10-2012, 10:08 AM   #61 (permalink)
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If i'm understanding you correctly, the air chamber is the boost bottle, or the plastic bottle that connects to each intake behind the carbs? If you are opening that when it is running you are going to be creating a huge air leak and instantly be running lean. That is why the sled would rev up when you did that. I would never recommend doing that while the sled is running. If you do that to many times you will be needing new pistons soon. You need to take the air box off until you can get it to stop leaking. If it leaks as fast as you're saying then the few minutes of no air box would be fine. I understand the air box is a real b&%#h to remove. But i have found that the more i've done it the easier it gets, still sucks nonetheless. With the air box out of the way you will be able to see what is going on and figure out where the leak is really at.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:07 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Yes you understand correctly, and I had a hunch that all I was doing was making it leaner, and I suppose I should stop doing that. So I should take the air box off, run it and you think it should run better? I'll try that, also when I opened the carbs up to fix the one float I didn't even check if the needles move properly, I assumed that if the floats move freely then the needle is working properly. Is that true? Or can the floats move and the needle still be stuck?

I'll get that air box off again, it's not so bad once you've gotten that secondary loosened for the first time in 20+ years... Should come out much smoother now!
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:21 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I would pull carbs and go through them to make sure all is well. Ain't that hard once air box is out. Just pull them and make sure everything looks good. Probably something simple.


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Old 11-10-2012, 11:32 AM   #64 (permalink)
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The needle can be stuck and the floats may still work properly.


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Old 11-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Well I pulled off the air box and my more knowledge friend helped me sync the carbs a little better and we ran it without the air box. Ran really well, the belt wasn't on or anything but it ran much better and throttle response was much better and it idled at 2000. The bowls were still wet so I pulled out the carbs to check the float needles, all good. So I put the carbs back in and put the air box in as well. This time it ran, but not near as well as earlier, idled at 1200 and throttle response was worse and it had a lower top end. I did vacuum the air box but it didn't help. Maybe I need to actually open it up and see if its's blocked up. Is that the problem? Or would it naturally run much better without the air box. Also it still dripped gas somewhere because the bowls were still a little wet. But it did run much better, so I have hope.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:37 PM   #66 (permalink)
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So I opened up the air box and it really wasn't that bad, looked pretty clean really. But it still doesn't run very well with the air box on. It is so much better without the air box! Any idea why it's so much more restricted with it on? It's really noticable. How should I fix that or how can I make it better?

And about the gas leaking somewhere, could it be that the gaskets in the bowls are bad? Just an idea, because I'm running out of them haha.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:43 PM   #67 (permalink)
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odd that it would change with the airbox removed. that is a two compartment box so you could have a restriction on the opposite side where you put your vacuum.

those carbs didnt leak last year but anythings possible from sitting. sounds like you got it down to a minor leak and thats encouraging. just need to figure out where from. bowl gaskets or the sealing washers on the drain plug could be suspect.

you may even consider other running issues with your sled. reed condition, spark plug caps, etc.

fuel wet appearance in the intake boots is normal, to an extent.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:25 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Ya the leak is not the main problem right now, assuming it's not a symptom, but the air box thing is making me curious. I ran it a decent amount inside the shop without the air box and the plugs didn't look too lean so I wasn't too worried about that, so I took it outside and the sled just rips, better than ever. But without the air box! I don't get it! The air box shouldn't restrict the air THAT much... The plugs looked fine after a 5 minute ride, and I'd be okay with riding it all the time without the air box but I just know that's probably not the brightest idea. What would you guys do if this was your sled?

Could it be a jetting issue? And if I were to check the reeds what should I be looking for? And why would that make sense as to why it's not getting enough air? Would you ever consider just running it without an air box? Maybe put a screen over the throats? I'm open to any opinions.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:01 AM   #69 (permalink)
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If you must run it without the air box, screens over the carb throats would be a good idea.
There must be something in the air box that is causing a restriction.

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Old 11-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Well I did get a light screen over the throats and rode the sled another 5 minutes. This time it wasn't quite as great and it would kind of bog at low RPM but then would take off just fine in the mid-range. I don't know what that would indicate, and I don't know what would've changed literally over night, I don't think the screen is really hurting it that much so I wouldn't really consider that as a problem. I did pull my plugs and the one is very black and dry and the other is pretty white and hot, I suspect it might have overheated a little.

Here's some pictures of the plugs, the one that is cardboard colored is actually a little whiter in person. Judging by a plug chart I think it might be overheated. Is that why it would bog at low speed though? It was capable of little wheelies yesterday but now it just bogs way too much.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:42 PM   #71 (permalink)
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what was the temp difference from yesterday to today? which plug was which? what usually happens running without the airbox is it upsets the air temps under the hood. basically your sucking hotter, moister underhood air vs slightly cooler and fresher air from the airbox. theres a reason for that snorkel affair on the right side of the airbox.

if you analize the design for a moment, the mag side is closest to the fan and usually runs a bit cooler. with the pto side further from the fan it has a tendancy to heat a bit more. by running without the airbox, both sides may be getting hot air, or unbalanced air flow.

could be your bog is a lean situation based on the one plug color. read that as too much air to that side and not enough fuel.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:20 PM   #72 (permalink)
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That makes complete sense, the plug farthest from the fan is indeed the more burnt looking one. So that very well could be the issue there. That plug is consistently hotter than the other so that would make sense. Temps have been right around 32 both times I ran it, so that part shouldn't have really changed.

That makes sense about the inconsistent temps under the hood as well, now I understand that bizarre snorkel that seemingly went nowhere! Okay, so what should I do next time I run the sled? Adjust the air screws to make it more rich? Or is there more involved in it?

Do you think I should get everything to work with the actual air box or is it okay to make a homemade snorkel for each throat? Maybe that would work, but is that a safe way to do it? Can it be consistent? I'm imagining a possible tube going from each throat up towards the handlebars or something along those lines. Don't know if that would work or not, just tossing around ideas.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:52 AM   #73 (permalink)
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I recommend taking another look at the air box.
See if you can find a way to check that there is nothing blocking it on the other side of the baffle plate.
Then when you put it in, look closely to be sure that nothing is being kinked or that the chokes are not being affected in any way [cable being pulled by the box].

It was also a common practice on a lot of the old fanner engines to have the PTO side carb set slightly richer to compensate for the temp difference between the cylinders.
This would mean that the main jet was often a size larger for that side.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Thanks RJ, I'll try that air box again next time I see the sled.

I did run it again earlier today and richened the mixture to the point where the plug on the PTO side looked perfect and the fan side was slightly glossy, and it still ran poorly at low speeds. So I'm starting to doubt that that will fix my bog unless you guys still think differently.

I'm leaning towards trying the air box the way God intended the Phazer to run and then figuring out what the actual problem is, whether it's jetting or otherwise. That makes the most sense to me in order to have a reliable sled, unless you guys have a different idea. Let me know what you think.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I'd keep the air box. A considered running without one do to the joys of taking it in and out. After a lot of reading on here and elsewhere I decided to keep it stock. All the factory settings can be found but you can't follow them when you don't keep the air box. Just my opinion


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Old 11-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #76 (permalink)
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i am for keeping the airbox in tact as well for all around riding. you will save yourself alot of headaches.

theres probably a half dozen or more screws per side to open up the airbox, bad part is yamaha usually used loctite on them. use a well fitting screwdriver to break the seal loose. sometimes in the right hands the hand held impact driver can help break them loose. short of that, pre-soaking with a penetrant will benefit your cause if you tap your screwdriver with a hammer while trying to turn.

you may also consider a blockage in the exhaust, low compression, or even clutching if your bog is under power.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Alright so now I know I want to keep the air box, and I did pull it apart and it looked pretty clean. The "filter" or whatever you want to call that swiss cheese looking piece had very little debris in it and the rest looked pretty good. I'll see how she runs tomorrow.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:56 PM   #78 (permalink)
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odd that if there wasnt any major obstruction in the airbox that it would affect the running as much. you were indicating the typical signs of an air flow issue. baffling.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:51 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Baffiling to Yamadad!!! Could it be possible!?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:13 PM   #80 (permalink)
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yep. hard to decipher things some times via the keyboard. hands on would be a different story. too bad your not in my neighborhood!
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