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Old 10-17-2012, 10:42 AM   #41 (permalink)
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The slop llin the steering is probably from multiple things. I just completely rebuilt my front end to eliminate the same problem. I probably did more than I needed to but my whole front end is new now. The tie rod ends are probably a lot of the slop. There is also bushings and collars where the ski's are mounted to the suspension. Those can wear quite a bit. I would move the handlebars and see when the skis start to move, trace from there. The tie rod end at the bottom of the steering shaft is probably worn along with the ones that connect to the steering spindles at the ski. You should be able to see movement in those, (handlebars turn but nothing else is moving). Start with those checks and get back with us. It can get very involved if you want to get all of the bushings and collars, also a little expensive depending on how far you want to go. I had mine down to a bare chassis and rebuilt it from the bottom up. I found a lot of new old stock parts that made it a lot cheaper but it is fairly involved.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:48 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I'm not with the sled now, but I know that that the handlebars turn a lot, maybe 2-3 inches before the skis start to. What does that indicate? Really I'm just looking to get 80% of it fixed for 20% of the work, maybe it's more like 50/50 the way you're describing it... It's my beater/loaner sled so it doesn't have to be perfect, just looking for a lot tighter steering.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:05 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Look at the tie rod at the bottom of the steering shaft. If you can turn the bars and that rod isn't moving then that will be a bunch of your slop. I'm not sure if you can change that tie rod end without pulling the motor though. I had my motor out and changed everything while it was out. Next check the tie rod ends at the steering spindles at the skis. If you can get a lot of movement from the bars and those rods aren't moving then that is more of it. There should be 2 on the right side and 1 on the left side of the sled. Those would be rather inexpensive and that would probably take up a lot of your slack. That might be your biggest bang for your buck. I think you can get them at like a farming supply store or even a auto parts store.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Alright yamadad, this syncing business is getting me good. I got the secondary off with the help of Liquid Wrench and the vicegrip on the jackshaft. My concern is that I get my right carb open, but then my throttle adjustment cable is loosened all the way. I just don't know if it should be that loose to get the right side to open up, the left side is plenty open, much more so than the right. I just don't know what I'm doing and it's hard to explain it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:29 AM   #45 (permalink)
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right carb=the one closest to the cable bracket or right side as seated on the sled. this carb is adjusted with the throttle cable. when the throttle flipper is depressed to the bars, the butterfly on this carb should open to a horizontal position without straining the cable. at this point of the adjustment, releasing the throttle lever should allow this carb to return to a fully closed position and you should have the proper cable freeplay as mentioned in a previous post.

once you have achieved this adjustment, look at the left carb. clutch side or left as seated on the sled. with the throttle off, it should match the position of the right carb as well as when the throttle lever is pushed to full throttle. in other words, when the throttle is at full, the left carbs' butterfly should be at horizontal. the adjustment for the left carb is located between the carbs. it uses a flat blade screwdriver, should be easy to spot as its the only one like it between the carbs. if you turn this screw in clockwise, the butterfly will raise (open), counter clockwise lowers it(closes). turning this screw does not affect the cable adjustment nor the right carb.

basically when your finished, both of the carbs butterflies will open and close in unison and match each other at any point in the throttle pull range and you will still have the specified cable freeplay or slack. your lack of the top bracket may be hindering your adjustment if the carbs are twisting.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I think the probelms is the twisting of the carbs. I can get most of my right carb open using the method you described but the left still seems a little more open than the right. How much does it matter? Is close good enough? They both seem to close together, but the right just doesn't quite get as open as the left.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:27 PM   #47 (permalink)
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close is your starting point. remember i mentioned this method is to get you close and there is a more in depth and more accurate procedure. see how it runs as you have it now and go from there.

although i have never experienced it first hand, i have heard of the phazers having running issues when the brackets have been loose or bent. you lacking the bracket may make you a prime candidate for a running problem like when you mentioned not revving over 5000 rpm, or could have been the base line sync was that far out of whack. tying the carbs back together would be on the top of my list.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:19 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Okay so if I want to get a bracket, if I make a template while the two carbs are still cockeyed that will kind of defeat the point. You mentioned you would be willing to make a template or even the whole bracket for me, I'll send you a PM about that.

And I guess it's close, but I know it could be closer if I knew what I was doing, I guess I was just wondering how close is close enough? Probably hard to know without you having seen the thing. Anyway, is it safe to run the sled with the airbox off?

Also I'm in the process on removing the pilot screw that was snapped off, that sure is soft metal, it wouldn't come out with a vicegrip, so I'm thinking of drilling it out. Is that the best option?
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #49 (permalink)
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not a good idea to run without the airbox, but it would be okay for short starts to check things in my opinion.

a small ez out type screw remover or even a left hand drill bit should do the trick. be careful and dont drill too deep and make sure your centered. you dont want to damage the carb body. try and account for all the shavings so they dont enter the carb. a shop vac near where your drilling is cheap insurance.

as far as close, running the sled will help in that determination but do try and remedy the missing bracket. and yes, seeing it would be a plus.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:40 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Looks like there are 2 brackets for the carbs to tie them together. I was hoping this place sold them. That way they would be perfectly aligned. I'll keep looking. Maybe you could find used ones.........

1989 Yamaha PHAZER (PZ480N) Carburetor | Yamaha Sports Plaza

You could call this place. They supposedly have over 1m parts..
http://www.snowmobileparts.com/
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Ya I've looked around and I haven't seen any of those brackets for sale, kind of unfortunate. But if I'm going to get a bracket made for it, I shouldn't even bother with trying to adjust them if it's just going to twist. So I guess my little project is on hold, maybe I'll look into my steering issues in the meantime.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Just in case anyone is curious, my one air screw was snapped off from a previous owner and I couldn't get it out and neither could the local machine shop, so I shipped her off to Yamadad and I'll buy some decent ones from him. Then hopefully this Phazer will pur like a kitten. Now I need to look into my steering issues, I think a video will be most helpful so you guys can see what's going on. Expect a new thread any day now...
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:13 PM   #53 (permalink)
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yamadad will treat you good. I speak from experience......
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:23 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Alright I got the carbs from Yamadad, and indeed they are much nicer than my old ones! But they are still giving me some trouble, I got the carbs in and one of the bowls was just dripping gas, tons of it. So I took the bowls off and sure enough the one side had a stuck float, so I took care of that, inspected the other side and it moved freely so I put it back together. It ran, but not very strongly, sometimes it would run perfectly and really push me back in the seat, but then it would bog down and finally it didn't want to run at all and then died when I tried to give it gas. After towing it back to the shop it was still pretty wet under both of the bowls, and there just seems like there's way too much fuel, and I just don't know what to do. It just seems like it's slowly drowning itself in gas.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:15 PM   #55 (permalink)
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did you address your choke plunger issues yet? the more info you provide, the easier the diagnosis.

the way i have always understood the choke circuit on the yamaha carbs(and possibly why they are referred to as an "enrichener"), is that when you pull the lever back, it pulls up on the plunger and opens a circuit allowing more fuel into the engine.

last i was aware, you were trying to run and tune your sled without properly having the plunger installed or adjusted.

my question would be "will a snowmobile engine run properly without the plungers and their associated parts connected or adjusted?".

you need to pinpoint the source of the excess fuel. you know i will help you get things right, but you have to cover things on your end as well.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Sorry I should've mentioned that about the choke plunger, but I did find a spring that works, it's not the perfect match but it functions just as well as far as I can tell. Could it be that I managed to hook up my airbox improperly? Perhaps its getting the usual amount of fuel but not enough air? I'll look at when I get home from school. And then i'll try to explain the situation a little better.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I'm not saying your air is restricted from the air box but if that is the case there must be some sort of mouse nest or something in your air box. I wasn't able to get my air box apart due to rotten screws so i just used a shop vac and sucked it out real good on both holes. You may want to do that just to make sure it is clean. Take it apart if you can but a least use a shop vac if not.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:58 PM   #58 (permalink)
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those carbs i sent you were the ones i ran on my piped phazer. they worked fine on my sled last season, but anything could have happened while they were sitting.

basically i swapped out jetting for your elevation, made sure the passages were clean and clear, adjusted the floats to stock spec, dried them up, air tested the needle and seat and shipped them your way.

wish i could have ran them prior to shipping, probably should have, just trying to avoid the fuel issue with the postal service.

any indication of where the excess fuel is coming from on the outside is a plus.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Okay I just got to the sled, ran it for a minute and there's already gas on the bottoms of the bowls, just a little for now, but it sure didn't take long. I can't describe it more than that there's gas under both bowls. I really have no idea where its coming from, maybe at the throat where it meets the cylinder. I don't want to pull off the airbox again unless I run out of other ideas. Anything you guys want me to look at or describe more?

Also at the intake manifold, there's a decent amount of gas pooled up, I don't know if this is normal or not, but the air chamber is pretty wet too when I pull it off.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #60 (permalink)
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When I pull off the air chamber after there's a lot of fuel pooled up and run it, it revs really high, maybe it would do this normally, but I don't know. While its running, if I slightly pull the air chamber off it runs a lot higher RPM, but throttle response is still prettybad. I don't know what that means, and I don't know if it means anything to you guys either, but I thought I'd mention it. Also to clarify I do mean air chamber, not to be confused with the air box. And I should also clarify that btoth carbs seem to be drowning, and there is fuel under both the bowls. Thanks again guys.
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