87 Phazer running rotten! - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

wjdunlop · 01-06-2008, 02:55 PM

I am now into my second season trying get my Phazer to run correctly. Spark is strong, have cleaned the carbs 4 times. Tried spraying quick start around the end seals with no change in rpm's.

When cold, starts after about 3 pulls with full choke. After starting, go to half choke, idles at about 2000, and fairly smoothly. After 30 secs to 1 minute, choke off, drive away slowly (about 4000 rpm). Then it starts to die, lift choke to half, engine comes to life, runs OK. Turn choke off when up on the high speed jets, machine runs good, but will not idle. Need to use half choke to start. Need some choke at low rpms.

Sometimes it will run OK without choke, (up to one or two kilometers), but eventually dies and is hard to start.

I'm pretty sure it is a fuel related problem, like there is not enough fuel getting into the carbs at low rpm, or there is some air getting into the crankcase which leans out the fuel.

I think the fuel pump must be ok as it runs fine at high rpm indefinitely (or as long as there is space to maintain speed)

More than 2 tanks of stabilized gas have passed through the engine since this problem, so I'm thinking it can't be dirty gas.

Any ideas out there? Would a split fuel pump impulse line (if there is one) allow enough air into the crank to cause this? Where else can air get into the crankcase? I see a joint breather in the parts blow up. What is this for?

Any help would be appreciated before I give this machine a swimming lesson it won't recover from.

This machine is on its third top end, and has only 5127 Km's on it. It looks new!

Advice to Phazer Owners: Do not try to juice up a Phazer, I bought this machine with ANL pipes, Boisen Fiber Reeds, big jets, and 3400 rpm clutch spring. You get the performance, but this tricking pulls way too much air/fuel through the machine, and will burn a hole in the top of the piston in less than a minute at full throttle.

SawBlade · 01-06-2008, 04:32 PM

crank seals may be leaking and sucking air.

Exciter man · 01-06-2008, 04:36 PM

Check compression

wjdunlop · 01-06-2008, 06:04 PM

I sprayed starter fluid around both ends of the engine, with no increase in rpm. I think this is the test for leaking seals.

wjdunlop · 01-06-2008, 06:07 PM

I didn't test the compression, but it starts very consistently at three pulls. Also runs well with the choke feathered. I don't have a compression gauge or enough hands to use it. Do they screw into the spark plug sockets now? They used to have a rubber base and you had to hold them down tight.

wjdunlop · 01-07-2008, 02:23 PM

I did spray quickstart around the seals, but it made no difference. Yesterday, I started it up, and ran it about 2Km to our parking spot, left it running for about 5 minutes and then drove it back the 2 Km to our cottage, just when I was running up the hill to put it into the shed, it broke down again and stalled. I needed to feather the choke to keep it running to put it away. The total run time with no problem was close to 20 minutes. Would bad seals display this behaviour?

whiteindian01 · 01-07-2008, 08:08 PM

lmao from my bad experience with yammi products.... check to see if there is junk in the jets then remove jug on pto side and see if bearing packed up lol tis sounds EXACTLY what mine was doing b4 i took apart and seen all this trouble. but let me say i'm no snomo mechanic just going from what happend to mine 86 srv 540

**smallengineguy** · 01-07-2008, 08:23 PM

Did you check the tank for an obstruction? It definitely has a lean condition, but not all the time. What do the plugs look like? Are they both the same, or is one darker than the other?

Gunner · 01-07-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallengineguy

Did you check the tank for an obstruction? It definitely has a lean condition, but not all the time. What do the plugs look like? Are they both the same, or is one darker than the other?

^^^^^ what he said.. And on another note.. The feller I take my phazer too when I give up told me once that when some certain "fuel stabilizers" are used that the pickup for the fuel inside the tank can come loose and start floating around in the tank. He never said how to fix it. Just that he'd seen it happen when folks use stablizer.. He also didn't mention any specific brand. And it's possible he had a tank he needed to sell.

Yamagirl · 01-11-2008, 11:45 AM

My brother and I each had a phazer and we both had problems with the wires coming out of the engine below the oil tank. Make sure they are clean and dry and then seal them with something like spark plug wire sealer. You never know that could be it. We found it by trial and error.

wjdunlop · 01-12-2008, 12:42 PM

Thanks for the suggestion. I have had the carbs off no less than 4 times, each time cleaning all the jets and passageways. The wiring under the carbs (TORS connections) have been cleaned, and set to bypass the TORS system to eliminate that from the possible cause.

wjdunlop · 01-12-2008, 12:46 PM

I am going to look at the fuel filter in the tank when I get back to the machine. I had assumed that it was OK as I was always able to get enough fuel by feathering the choke when the machine began to die. I was assuming that if there was a fuel blockage or obstruction, there still would not be enought for the choke either.

wjdunlop · 01-12-2008, 12:51 PM

I have had the carbs apart 4 times, and cleaned them each time with carb cleaner. I pulled all the jets, and flushed the passageways. These carbs were gleaming on the inside after the 4th time. I even run fine wire through all the passages, and put light at the other end to see if there was any stuff. Maybe, as suggested below, my fuel filter has dropped off into the tank, and I'm getting fresh junk into the carbs every time I run it.

wjdunlop · 01-12-2008, 01:04 PM

Hi smallengineguy. I agree it is lean, but not all the time. This is why I don't think it can be the crankseals. If it was a fuel line obstruction or blockage there would be no fuel for the chokes either when it leaned out. The plugs are carboned up and damp each time I take them out to clean them. I think this is from feathering the choke, and the machine not really getting to a warmed up to steady state condition because of this issue. Could reeds cause a variable crank pressure condition enough to keep the fuel pump pressure OK, and not enough vacuum to pull enough fuel/air through the carbs? I'm really fed up with this machine. I've spent much more time working on it than riding, and I'm not sure that's way it is supposed to work.

IRONDOG · 01-12-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjdunlop

Thanks for the suggestion. I have had the carbs off no less than 4 times, each time cleaning all the jets and passageways. The wiring under the carbs (TORS connections) have been cleaned, and set to bypass the TORS system to eliminate that from the possible cause.

Did you put the rubber plugs back in the jet wells after cleaning the jets? You did remove the pilot jets?
Jerry

SawBlade · 01-12-2008, 11:47 PM

Are you sure you fuel is fresh. Water in the fuel tank will act like this. Also, put new plugs in it.

wjdunlop · 01-29-2008, 07:29 PM

Hello Sawblade:
I used to spend a lot of time in Cleveland. Yes, I put the rubber plugs back in, and used the parts explosion to make sure I got them in the right place. There are 3 holes, and 2 plugs. I had all the jets out, including the float valve seat. Cleaned them squeaky clean with carb cleaner and reassembles. (I can now get the carbs out in less than 10 minutes.)
Thanks for the input. Any other ideas?

wjdunlop · 01-29-2008, 07:39 PM

Hello Irondog:
I screwed up on these replies. Yours went to Sawblade. Please have a look. Now this one is for Sawblade. I did put a reasonable amount of alcohol in the gas tank to soak up any water. As for fresh gas, my wife's machine (a nice little 340 Elite) runs just fine on the same gas. I have gone through two tanks with it in this condition. It's something wierd like a split gas line sucking air or junk in the reeds that just won't go through. The January thaw killed the ice bridge, so we can't cross the river to get to our cottage until it safely re-forms. We're just about ready to head south to the warmer weather and to hell with snowmobiling. We've had snow every day for 2 weeks, and no sun. Margaritaville here we come!
Guys, thanks for your thoughtful replies.

Gunner · 01-29-2008, 08:55 PM

My wifeys 87 started with the same symptoms you have. Cleaned the carbs and it ran for about 20 min before starting with the issue. Cleaned the carbs again and it runs fine (at the house) Got froggy and cleaned and used dielectric grease on all the connections.. It seems to run much more crisp now. I'll find out Saturday if it was the problem. There was one connection that had condesation in it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed..

wjdunlop · 01-31-2008, 04:49 PM

Gunnar:
I hope you have it licked. I had the carbs off 4 times to clean them. I added alcohol to the gas to dry up any water, sprayed quick start around the end seals to see if they were leaking, poured in fresh gas. After all that, I got a good ten minute run before it acted up again. I'm pretty sure the problem is not electrical, because if I feather the choke, it runs well, but fouls the plugs because its running rich.
I'm going south, to hell with it.

Thanks for your reply. When I get back, and my patience is restored, I'll have another go at it. We are a water access cottage, and I don't have a trailer. Otherwise, it would be in the shop