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2000 Yamaha Phazer suspension question

5K views 10 replies 4 participants last post by  yamadad4 
#1 ·
Hello All,

I am relatively new to snowmobiles, so this has been a learning process for me.
I am rigging a 2000 Yamaha Phazer for Ice fishing, one of the things I have done is add a custom built 2" hitch receiver to the rearend for a rack/box combo.
one of the things I didn't take into account when building this mod was the rear suspension when loaded.
The added weight ( aprox. 50lbs) plus myself squats the rear more than I anticipated.
I don't think there is any immideate clearance danger, but would like some advice on stiffening up the rear end?
I've already set the shocks to max.

Thank You for the feed back.
I will post some pics of the setup later today.
 
#2 ·
Welcome to the forum!

If you drop the front mount of the rear shock to the lowest position, that will allow the effective spring rate and shock valving to be greater, reducing sag.

Otherwise, you will have to replacing the spring with a stiffer one. A spring compressor would be needed for that.
 
#4 ·
WOW! Thats a load! From an engineering standpoint the fact the bulk is way passed the center of what the skid can handle, your going to be trading off any sort of ride quality when your not hauling that affair.

For sure you will be looking at some extreme springs for the rear shock. When I get some time I will offer up a few suggestions if needed.

Your project looks great and appears as though you put alot of thought into it, but a tag-along would be alot easier on your sled. Just my opinion.
 
#5 ·
Thank You Yamadad4,

Yes I have put some time, $$ and engineering into it.
For most people I will admit this is a bit overkill, However when your passion is ice fishing and traveling is a priority in any adverse condition, I do like to be prepared.

I have all the service manuals for the sled and working in industrial maintenance field all these years pretty good understanding of things, just new to the snowmobile world.
I realized after loading all the gear during testing that the stock shocks in the rear were not going to be "stiff" enough for the added weight plus the rider. Prior to the mods and the advice of a regular snowmobiler I know, he recommended setting the two rear shocks and the two front shocks to max. ( there is a mod on the front for the auger carrier system)
So I turned to the experts to determine what "options" I have to counteract the extra weight so the rear of the sled doesn't squat as much. I'm also concerned that in its current configuration with the stock shock setup ,that the reduced clearance in the tunnel is a potential for damage from the track I studded.

Here is a shot of the front, I have plans this summer of redoing this as I discovered that the front grab bar actually bolts in. Have done some cad work on a prototype to bolt in place of the existing grab bar with plans to add a smaller box with the auger carrier/light system.

I'm not concerned with ride quality as this is a purpose built system, the only thing this sled is used for is Ice Fishing. No trail riding or speeding across open lakes etc.
I would be interested in seeing what your referring too as a tag along.
 

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#6 ·
Nice setup!

You may also be able to get more spring preload and stiffer shock valving by switching to the aluminum bodied kyb shocks, but that is generally a fairly expensive option. They are rebuildable however.
 
#7 ·
I would be looking for a rear spring off a similar skid that was on the 2 up sleds, like the ventures, etc. from the same era.

My idea of a tag along is simply any sled that can easily be pulled behind your snowmobile. Less stress on the tow vehicle. I used to use a few different variations from something as simple as a "jet sled"(plastic tow behind that doubles as an adrenaline toy on any incline) to boxed frame trailers with skis to the more elaborate using suspension via tss style shocks. Key with any is a rigid attachment and a spring on the tounge or hitch helps transfer some shock.

I have long since went away from pulling trailers, but many still do and there should be alot of options and variations. You put way too much time into your invention to walk away, its just going to need a fat boy spring and/or shock to handle the load.
 
#8 ·
Yamadad4 , thank you for the advice. I don't have intentions of back pedaling now, too committed. So can you recommend any particular brand to use?
Also there are two shocks in the "skid" I believe that's what you refer to the rear. Should I do them both?
Secondly
On the front end
When completed, there will be aprox 50-60lbs weight when loaded.
Should I consider replacing the front ski shock systems as well?
 
#9 ·
I think Yamadad is referring to the rear springs, not the shocks. All the manufacturers make a couple different weight springs for different rider weight. The biggest (stiffest) are often referred to as "fat boy" springs because they are really stiff in comparison to the normal ones.

According to the Yamaha site, there are two sizes available for the larger spring on your 2000 Phaser 500, if you have the smaller spring, the stiffer one will help a lot with the weight you will be carrying.

I don't think the front springs will need to be changed. All your additional weight at the rear is going to lift the weight off the front. Stiffer front suspension definitely won't be necessary.

You may have been better off to start with a dedicated 2-up or utility sled for this application, they have a much more robust suspension to start with.

Nice work on the mod, though!
 
#10 ·
Thank you BC Dan.
I seen that there was a different spring for the rear. I'm still working on the conversion into relatable data (K=52 N/mm = fat guy spring ? ) lol
Can you or Yamadad recommend a company to discuss and buy the springs I am looking for?

Yes I think I would of been better off with a 2-up or Utility sled. Went with this sled on recommendation from more "experienced ice fishing sled guys", suppose to be one of the best sleds ever built for ice fishing. There isn't a ton of options for fan cooled sleds and I am concerned that in the future there wont be any for future ice fishing machine builds.
Again though, I am relatively new to this and maybe they still make fan cooled sleds.
 
#11 ·
The K(usually kgf) is kilograms of force per mm of spring compression. Same with the N/mm. Newton meter per mm of compression on the spring. Conversion charts should be readily available on the innerweb for either measure. Assuming yours is the stock original rear shock spring, the higher the number for your optional spring will be the stiffer spring(fat boy), to carry more load.

Normally you can get away with just the rear spring replacement without upsetting the front of rear if you make a few adjustments. Like Dan mentioned, no need to address the front ski shocks, but you most likely will want to adjust the limiter straps, the FRA, and adjust the preload on the front shock in the rear skid as well as the ski shocks.

You may get additional info by contacting Schmidt Bros in Michigan or Bruce Shrader in New York(formerly with Pioneer Performance and last I knew was doing his own thing).

Since it sounds like you only have one optional upgrade, with some shock eye to eye comparisons, there should be some other heavy duty ones that will fit from other sleds with the same rear suspension.
 
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