1994 Phazer, new to sled, want to cover my bases. - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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1994 Phazer, new to sled, want to cover my bases.

Hey guys,

I just recently picked up a 1994 Phazer. I've only had about an hour with it so this is all I know. I was able to put some mix gas into the holes above intake (a plastic double nozzle little tube is there, i pulled that and poured the fuel in). The sled fired right up on the 2nd pull after adding fuel. It idled for about 20 seconds until it ran out of that fuel i poured in. I'm rather certain the fuel in the unit is 2 years old. I've done some digging and it sounds like I need to remove the seat and siphon out all that old gas as well as check fuel filter in the tank. I took the bolts out of the oil resevoir and pulled that aside so i can see what the fuel lines were looking like. THe one going into the pump is rock hard, and so are the ones going to the carbs. I'm going to plan to replace all of these fuel lines and probably the lines running from the oil pump as well. I've not worked on a dual carb system before, typically I clean single carbs. I'm betting these carbs are dirty and will want to confirm that my fuel pump is pushing fuel as well.

does this motor have a bottom end crank case that holds it's own oil? If so, i'd like to change that out as it's probably old oil in there. IF not, that will save me a step. Are there any suggestions as to how to get the carbs off, do I need pull the tanka nd the entire plastics, because the way it looks right now I'm going to struggle getting to anything with the brake rotor and oil tank and other things in my way. If i pull the seat and the tank will that give me room or what's the best way to get to my carbs. I want to try to get these cleaned up without causing any issues in the process.

Thank you in advance for the advice. My first plan tonight is to get the seat off and get all of the old fuel siphoned out of the tank. I will inspect the fuel filter. Then I'm going to pickup some 1/2" fuel line in bulk so that I can begin replacing all of these. Does anybody know what sizes these lines tend to be, i'm pretty sure the one from tank to pump is 1/2", maybe some of the othersare 1/4 or 3/8 line? Basically i want to replace any of these old rock hard lines with something new so i can eliminate any issues now or int he future.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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dang....45 views and notta.....guess i'll do this one alone, lol.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:02 PM
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Patience! Hopefully you did some searching and reading because the bulk of your answers have been addressed before. Not everyone lives on the web.

So, for the last six or more hours you most likely got your seat off and found out the bottom plywood most likely has rotted out. Nows a good time to replace that since its off and let the foam dry out a bit. Most likely the seat material has become dry and brittle and will be a pain to re staple.

There is no oil in the engine case, not on a two stroke. The engine is lubricated via the fuel system. Personally I wouldnt remove the tank as your adding alot more work to the job. You should be able to syphon the larger portion. There is a supply line located on the right front of the tank thats a pain to reconnect unless you remove the bars and associated plastics.

On the left side of the tank cowl right next to the filler cover you will see a plastic tab thats about 1" x 2". Theres a small slot so you can pry it up. Under this tab is two 10mm headed bolts that secure the airbox. Once these are removed, along with the secondary clutch, the carb access becomes much easier. Should make sense once you dig in.

Now for the fuel and oil lines. For what its worth, you dont want to scrimp on these items. Your sled uses a specific metric id line and there are up to 3 different sizes for fuel and oil. You can get some cheap aftermarket crap that will either loosely fit or can be somewhat stretched to fit, but in my opinion your opening yourself up for leaks. Spend a little extra now, and save some headache down the road. Anything short of oem and you will be buying clamps or fighting fitment.

Great little sleds, I still have 3. Some love and time and you will get alot of enjoyment. Dont forget about cleaning the clutches and checking them for wear. If your good with a single carb, its the same thing x 2. Do one at a time so you have the other for reference. Pay attention to the plug orientation, 94 's were borderline as to 1 or 2 of the rubber plugs. Also pay attention to the three holes on the airbox side of the carbs. Be sure they flow.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the response. I'm an atv guy and I know the 2 stroke atv's and dirt bikes do run oil on the bottom end so I wanted to double check.

Luckily the wood on this seat is in fine shape. This was stored in a shed so it did not see constant rain. I did however snap 3 of the bolts that hold the seat down, the bolts were completely rusted. I managed to get one of the side ones out in tact. I will plan to use some lag's in the rear t hold it down once it's running good. The tank looked good, I siphoned the gas and put fresh in. THere may have been a half gallon of bad gas left although this gas really did not seem bad to me. I topped off with fresh.

REplaced fuel line to the pump, and the lines from the pump to the carbs. Both lines are pumping fuel out when I pull the starter rope, so I know the fuel pump is working. I'm now thinking I must pull the carbs since that's where my fuel delivery issue is at. I bought winter grade blue fuel lines that are 1/4 and 3/16, they fit perfect so far and I did put new clamps on.

So I assume I'm going to see these plugs on the bottom of the carb, I can snap a photo to make sure I put it all back the same way, rubber plugs on the outside bottom?

Since I've got fuel pumping to my carbs and since I can see the oil injection working when I pull the plastic thing off to see the intakes, I'm assuming everything is a go but fuel delivery from the carb. It fired again when I poured fuel into the holes, I managed to flood it trying t keep it running with more fuel. Was hoping I'd get lucky and draw a vacuum through the carb. Anyway I will pull both carbs off, should I seperate them when I'd o this or just keep them held together and do each one individually like you mentioned. I will look for the three holes as well as clean all jets, I'm thinking I've got a major idle jet or main jet clog since this won't push any fuel through to the engine.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:29 PM
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When you consider where the chaincases are on an atv/mc vs the sled, you will understand that aspect. The chaincase oil on the atv/mc's lubricates the gears, clutches, and associated drive components. Find the chain case on the right side of your sled and you will be doing the same thing as pulling the drain plug on your bike or atv. Its just not as straight forward or as easy on the sleds.

Do not unrack those carbs! And dont mess with the sync screw located between the carbs just yet. Assuming the sled ran well before storage, you shouldnt have to adjust the sync.

You will see the rubber plugs under the bowls once removed. The bowl hold them in place, but if they are loose or hard once removing the bowls, do replace them with new. Expensive at over $6 each. Some take 4 and newer pz's only use 2. Your on the borderline with the year.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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OK I will keep them together.

I'm confused now do these sleds actually have oil in the bottom end that can be changed? Can't tell what you were saying exactly. If they do have that lower end oil does nobody ever change it or some thing? I change my bottom end oil routinely on the 2 stroke atvs and bikes.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:56 PM
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No oil in the bottom end on a 2 stroke sled. The chaincase is separate and located behind the silencer portion of the exhaust.

Sorry for the confusion, I was trying point out that bikes and atv's have the chaincase attached to the engine whereas a sled the chaincase is a separate entity. In other words, when your changing the oil in the bottom end of an atv or bike, your not changing lubrication necessary for survival of the engine, but the lifespan of the gears and associated drive parts. The engine bearings and other moving parts on all 2 strokes survive with oil in the fuel whether mixed in the tank or auto injected. I pre mix my yz's and add injector oil to my 2 stroke atv's, and regularly change oil in all the gear cases, much more often on the bikes than the sleds.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 10:13 PM
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I just went through a 1991 Phazer II bringing it back from the dead. I ditched the airbox since it's a pain in the ass to keep putting back on if you are playing around with settings.

I cleaned my carbs, and bench synced 'em, then had to rebuild my fuel pump... along with replacing stator and coil to get spark going.

You are so close man. Good luck. Post a pic of your Phazer and your carbs. Happy riding.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 10:42 PM
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Leave the airbox in when your done. The little bit of inconvenience it takes to remove and install this key item far outweighs the problems you will encounter without it!
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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I will get some picks tonight, really just a bit discouraged at the ridiculous amount of lines and cables running to 2 carbs instead of my usual single carb ease of work. The good news is that we're pumping gas to the carbs so my issue is definitely inside the carb, that makes troubleshooting much easier now that i know we have gas there. I'm not worried about fuel lines or drain lines when it comes to re assembly, it's mostly the choke setups and the oil injection knob, i don't want to fiddle one bit with that thing or not get it put back on the same. I will definitely put the airbox back on, unless there is a way to run an air filter without the box, i've not seen what the filter looks like inside the box but on most of my race applications i do tend to remove the lid or the box in order to draw some more power. I won't be donig that with this setup though since I just want to keep it stock and get it to run like a champ before we get snow . So basically I want to leave these carbs together as they are, and squeeze them out of there as one piece. Sometimes I can clean carbs on the unit, would you guys recommend i disconnect everything and haul it tot he work bench or should i pull the bowl and clean it up while it's still got some cables running to it?
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:56 PM
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Take pictures as you take it apart.
Easier to clean when out.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
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I got it all out and cleaned up but lost a jet on the work bench. it hit the floor and rolled behind it and I'm not finding it. i swept it all out to get a better look but no luck It's the jet that goes into the bowl screw that holds the bowl on. it sits inside the screw. Any ideas what size i'm lo. oking at or how to get a new one lol!
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Welp, i gave one last look after posting this and holy crap there it was! LIke a miracle!
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Well I got it to fire up but it dies shortly after like it was before. Plugs are soaking wet so it seems like it's getting fuel. These plugs look newer and they don't appear foul but do u think I should get some just to rule that out?
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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At this point I'm thinking fuel pump or something? It is doing exactly what it did before. Will fire with starter fluid or,by pouring gas in but will die after 15 or 20 seconds. It fouls easy when I do this so that's another issue. I don't know if it will try to start without pouring fuel in...
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 09:43 PM
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How much fuel is in the tank? You will need at least 3 gallons to prime up the system, incline specific. If you didnt fill it up, start there.

From there you may be looking at a crank seal. But, in one of your prior posts you mentioned the fuel pump supplying so thats a crap shoot. If the seals are bad, you wont create enough vacuum from the case to supply fuel. And then there is the tank filter, vent lines, and a multitude of other scenarios to deal with.

Carb cleanliness and condition comes to play as well. Looking at your pics, those set for some time with crap fuel.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Well that's great info, i definitely woudl not have thought it needed 3 gallons to prime up. I'll fill that baby up to the top.

The fuel pump does pump fuel out of both fuel lines, i tested this again when the carbs were off. i pulled the pull rope and fuel squirted from both lines. tank filter looked good, all vent lines seem fine.

Yeah, the carbs weren't awful, but did have a bit of corrosion and settling in them, it wasn't too bad to clean though i've seen much worse in carbs so luckily it wasn't a huge disaster.

I will start by filling my fuel tank all the way. if this doesn't work I will dig further. I can't imagine that fouled plugs would allow it to fire up and run for 20 seconds and then just die unless they are fouling after it dies. I'll get new plugs to rule this out. the sled ran 2 seasons ago and did nto have any tweeking or adjustments done that shuold cause it to go out of tune, but you never know.
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I filled the tank and still no fire. As soon as i spray choke cleaner it fires right up. Ill have to get back in the carb but really thought i had it clean. Thats the only thing i can think of
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ok, so apparently I needed to pull the plug on each carb, i didn't realize there was a pilot jet in there. i'm fairly certain this is my problem. I'm going to pull those plugs tonight and clean out that jet, i knew i was to keep an eyeo n these plugs but did not mess with them because i didn't want to confuse the orientation.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2017, 10:15 AM
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If you missed the pilots, thats a start for sure. Once you get those out, those three holes I told you about on the airbox need to be addressed as well. One of those goes through the pilot tube and the other comes out the choke plunger hole. Seems like the one on the far left looking at the carb is a vent or no go. Its the center and right you need to key on.

While the carbs are out, pay close attention to the pulse line. You could have some fatigue there and when the carbs put the demand out for fuel, you may not be building enough pressure.
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