help in troubleshooting - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

Ryan77 · 11-01-2005, 08:27 PM

Hi all, I reciently have been given a 1973 motoski 440, the guy said 3 yrs ago it ran great...then bam..no spark.....so he parked it and forgot about it....now I have it and am about to trouble shoot it....my question is....first I want to see if there is spark at the points......if there is no spark....can I simply clean them and replace the condensor....with perhaps an automotive one......and if there is spark at the points....can I easily find a coil?? or once again can I replace this with a motorbike coil.......??? any ideas to look for parts on an old sled like this??

**RJ Gleason** · 11-01-2005, 10:47 PM

You can get replacement parts for any of those items from catalogs. Refer to the list under miscellaneus parts.

IndianRvrShiver · 11-02-2005, 07:03 AM

Welcome to SF.com!!
You're taking on a real project!! There still are parts available for that sled. www.recleisure.com has points & condenser listed for it;
points part # 01-139-6 $2.99
condenser part # 01-140-9 $3.99
external coil part # 01-082 $20.99

Check them out....lots of vintage parts!

Ryan77 · 11-02-2005, 11:15 AM

ok.....yea I'll haf to check that place out......yea this is my first sled.......we don't get alot of snow here so....there isn't many sleds around here....and ppl think I'm crazy for taking this one......but for free,.. and to fix....it should'nt be a problem....I've worked on/rode motorcycles for 16 yrs. so I thin I'll like this....I think it will be fine for the little snow we get here in southern IN.....I'm hoping its something simple......the points and condenser is under the flywheel right.....is thay very easy to get to.....I know I'm going to check for spark up to the coil...and eliminate digging into it if possible.....mabey the coils bad....anyone know what the ohm reading should be across the coil.....or the volts that feed the coil?????

**smallengineguy** · 11-02-2005, 05:42 PM

I think there are 2 sets of points/condensers for this sled. Do you have no spark at all? Check with a tester to verify it.

Ryan77 · 11-02-2005, 06:20 PM

ok boys....I just went out and tested a few things out.....I used an old simpson 560 analog tester......when I turn key on and gently pull starter rope..... the meter grounded on one side and the other lead on the white wire(theres red wire going to the other coil) coming from the points.....with my meter set on the 2.5 v scale a gentle pull will fluctuate the meter.5 v or so in either direction......this is the same for the red wire......so both coils are getting sumthing.....now when I place the meter on the plug wire itself.....the meter fluctuatesabout a volt or so....again it sweeps back-n-fourth.....in a positive/negative direction....ok...this only happens with 1 coil....the other is dead.......so....would you all think its a coil issue........the spark plugs are shot and neither work.....so all I have to test is my meter......

steve03052 · 11-03-2005, 06:45 AM

I used to own a Skidoo with a 377 F/C motor, this sounds like a similar set up.

Mine used to do something like that every year. After sitting for the summer, it would give either no spark or a very weak spark. The first time I put in new points and condenser, every year after that, I just burnished the points. Being an engineer, I put my 260 on the coil inputs and saw something like what you are describing.

I suggest that you bite the bullet and take apart the magneto side of the motor. In the Doo that meant pulling the motor - a pain in the $%* but it was the only way I could get it to run.

While you have it apart, clean out the carbs. It's cheep insurance to help prevent the motor leaning out and burning up on the first really cold day you run it. After 3 years, there's probably a load of gook in them.

Ryan77 · 11-03-2005, 07:27 AM

the mag......its on the opposite side than the drive pulleys right......in the flywheel.....I think I can get to that w/ out pulling the motor.......and yes I figured on rebuilding the carb......this sled has only 1 so thats no prob.,.....so would you also say to replace the coils.....cause 1 puts out spark(on the meter anyway) and the other don't......and just clean the points???....do you know how many volts the coils are susposto throw...????

steve03052 · 11-03-2005, 08:53 AM

The magneto is on the starter recoil side. The recoil should be held on by 4 bolts (10mm wrench). Behind that is a flywheel that you have to use a puller to get off - I use a steering wheel puller.The points are under that. The wires are soldered on. I had to pull the motor because I couldn't get the puller inside of the pan on the Citation. It didn't have enough room to solder either.

If you are not going to pull the motor you might be able to get away with just burnishing the points. But if I had just been given the sled I would replace the points and condenser, not just try to get away with burnishing them.

It's pretty rare that an ignition coil goes bad, but you should be able to swap the coils to verify them. That's what I used to do on my Citation. The plug wires DO go bad. I had endless problems with them.

I never tried to figure out exactly how much the ignition coil should put out because I never had a meter that could survive 1000+ volts. It takes about 6000 volts to jump 1/4 inch so I guess a coil should output that as a minimum. Cars in 1973 time frame put out 12-20k volts from their coils.

steve03052 · 11-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Ryan -

does your sled look like this?

http://www.vintagesnowmobiles.50megs.com/PP704.html

Ryan77 · 11-03-2005, 10:47 AM

well kind of.....let me up load a pic.......hold on....I'll add it to my yahoo photos and past in a link......i still need to take engine pix....

Ryan77 · 11-03-2005, 10:50 AM

heres a pic......and if you go to album the second last pic is of the instrumentation

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hddman...ea.jpg&.src=ph

steve03052 · 11-03-2005, 02:58 PM

Looks like the same machine with a coat of paint! It looks really good, very clean. I'd say you made out like a bandit. Replace those points and I'll bet she'll be a runner.

I'll take a look at the motor I have and see if I can give you any hints.

Ryan77 · 11-03-2005, 04:19 PM

yea, since the pic I cleaned it up.....it looks much better....that was taken after I first brought home.....barn fresh 3yrs.......yea I'll post some motor pix here soon.....

Ryan77 · 11-03-2005, 05:54 PM

heres an engine pic....theres a couple more in my yahoo album
wha-do-ya think......like the one you fixed??

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hddman...54.jpg&.src=ph

steve03052 · 11-04-2005, 06:50 AM

It's very simmilar.

Remove the recoil - should be 4 bolts.
Remove the cooling fan housing - should be 4 bolts
Remove the fan drive pulley - hex keyed bolts

This will expose the magneto fly wheel. It should be held on the shaft with a large nut. Remove the nut, note the order of the washers.

Use a steering wheel puller to remove the magneto fly wheel to expose the points.

You have a @#$% load of room in there! In my Citiation there was about 3 inches of clearence between the motor and the side. Just enough to tease you. The motor was lower in the machine too. I think you can get away without pulling it.

Let us know how it goes.

Ryan77 · 11-04-2005, 06:56 AM

kool.....I sure will....thanx for the advise....and yea, theres a **** load of room in there.....I could prolly haul a few peices of firewood in there.....

Ryan77 · 11-04-2005, 05:29 PM

hey....I got another question....when ordering points/coils....anybody know what model I have(by looking at my pix).....or is it just a 440 motoski....the vin tag says "model"...then just has some number there.....I know it isn't as sporty as that first pic you asked me if mine looked like....I wonder if their parts(engine) are the same.....points/coils???

Yamaha guy · 11-07-2005, 10:13 AM

I have an old sled also. I recommend using www.sledparts.com. i have been to www.recleisure.com also, and would have to say that www.sledparts.com is WAY better. I can almost gaurentee that they will have what you are looking for.