new problem....lol - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

Ryan77 · 12-05-2005, 06:10 PM

LOL......guys that old 440 motoski I have was running like a champ.......untill this week.......now it floods the plugs......in 1 pull.....once I disconected the fuel lines.....drained all fuel out of carb.......started it on starting fluid.....then as it started and ran....quickly hooked up the fuel lines......and it took off and ran for awhile.......then started to bog down and flooded out again.....well....then I recieved my carb kit and ballcheck valve fuel filter in the mail on Sat. and figured alright ....just in time.....I can rebuild in time for the snow.....well Sun. I rebuilt the carb.....chem dipped the body in Berriemans carb cleaning dip.....then used the aresol type.....and all passages were very clean....I installed each gasket.....using the diagram....and everything fit together perfect........I double checked each part of the reassembly(I've rebuilt many carbs in my life) then put it on.....installed that new ball check valve fuel filter(inlet side)....and re cleaned my plugs.....did a quick spark check.......they sparked GREAT off the top of the head.....then screwed them in......and proceded to start it up.....and on the first couple pulls I FLOODED it out.....no start.....LOL....whats going on....this thing ran great a couple days ago....idled as long as I wanted it to.....and drove around under a load fine......the only thing I havent replaced is the spark plugs.....because they spark fine.......unless they don't when they are screwed in the cyclinder under pressure......so tonight I will run in town to get some new plugs.....just to try.....any one have any words of advise.....I really don't want to give up after I've worked so hard on it and replaced/rebuild the whole electrical system and fuel system........???????????now I'm getting too much fuel.......lol...when it rains it pours.......all I can do to stay sane is .....lol......also is there anyone i can call to talk me thru this....it would be quicker.......thanx in advance????????

steve03052 · 12-06-2005, 06:06 AM

Tillotson carbs have a bad habit of doing that. In my experince, that is usually caused by the needle valve not seating correctly. There's a beastly little clip that connects the valve to the rocker. If that isn't right the valve doesn't close and presto! Instant flooding.

The other thing that I've had cause this is the spring that pushes the needle closed (on the other side of the rocker) not being seated right.

Finally, there's that chance that the needle or the seat are bad. There are two types - a solid metal and a rubber one. Damage to either could be causing your problems.

Nothing against your work - you've done a fantasic job, these are some of the reasons why new quipment has Mikuni carbs instead of tillys.

So it sounds like you are doomed to taking the carb apart again. Welcome to the wonderful world of vintage snowmobiling.

Ryan77 · 12-06-2005, 07:06 AM

yea I have the rubber tip type......yea I rember what all that looked like.....it looked like new.....but I will take her back down again....and have another look....when I reassembled it I put it back the way it was and flipped it by hand and watched it go in/out......I guess I'll try to check with a little gas sitting in there (carb upside down) and see if it leaks past it..........I got plugs lastnight anyway....also....while at advance auto parts.....on there computer.....when looking up the 73 440 motoski.....the computer wanted to know if it was a capri, futura, or s model......how do I find out....it doesn't say anywhere on the sled.......under "model" on the vintag it just has a number????? there was a difference in plugs from model to model.....I hope I guessed the right one

IndianRvrShiver · 12-06-2005, 07:12 AM

New plugs are a MUST, so buy several!! You need to have confidence there is no problem there!! Just the cost of doing bizz!!
With that said, make sure the low speed needle is 1/2 - 3/4 turn out from bottoming. Top should be about 1 1/2 turns. You can stretch the inlet needle a bit to help make sure the needle seats better. If you have a fuel shut-off valve, you can simply close it if you think you are flooding, or if no valve, pinch the fuel line (must be flexible) with a clamp until the engine "cleans out".

I have done literally hundreds of Tilly's in my go-kart racing days. I used to modify them so they would pass 100% methanol (not good in cold!!), so I've been "around the block".

**RJ Gleason** · 12-06-2005, 09:11 AM

Unless you are comitted to keeping the sled totally original, you might want to consider changing the carb to a mikuni.

You will need a fuel pump and carb of the same size that is on the sled now. It will then give you fewer problems.

Ryan77 · 12-06-2005, 09:38 AM

so are you saying slightly bend the rocker arm so the needle is pressed into the seat a little more??????anyone know what the spark plug gap is????? or how to tell which model I have futura, cadet, or s.......and if this thing runs good for me this year I'll invest in a better carb......my luck, as soon as I put a new carb on it something else(major) would "go out".....so for now I'm limited to what I have......and you guys'es knowlege.....which I greatly appriciate...

IndianRvrShiver · 12-06-2005, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryan77
so are you saying slightly bend the rocker arm so the needle is pressed into the seat a little more...

No, No, No!! Just stretch the spring that is underneath it....not too much, prolly less tha 1/8".

Ryan77 · 12-06-2005, 10:49 AM

ok,......gotcha, I'll slightly stretch the spring......I was just thinking I'd be nervous bending the rocker....cause it'd be hard getting it back just right if I went too far,.....we just got some snow and when I get home I will try my new plugs first as it is......then take the carb off and do that.....hey....when I did get it started after the first time I flooded it,... i simply took the fuel line off......is it better to pinch it??(less air to suck.....mabey messes with the diaphram working properly) this last time it flooded.....I took the line off and I stil could'nt get it started....so mabey I should be pinching it????

IndianRvrShiver · 12-06-2005, 12:52 PM

You can pinch it with your fingers, but prolly too stiff from the cold. Can use pliers, vise-grip, hemostats, etc. Won't hurt the diaphragm.

Ryan77 · 12-06-2005, 02:37 PM

update.......while surfing and looking at pics I concluded its a 1973 f-440.......so tonight I need to get new plugs

Ryan77 · 12-06-2005, 09:04 PM

well when I got home I put the plugs in..BR8ES in which I looked up to be correct......and pinched the line and pulled a few times.....sprayed starting fluid in the carb..... and pulled some more......well it wasn't starting.......so I unpinched the line and just started pulling and pulling the rope......and periodicaly removing the plugs to dry them off.....lol....this thing really sucks gas......anyway....slowly it started to sputter....so I kept pulling(good exercise) and it finaly fired.......and ran good......after about 30 seconds of letting it warm up I hopped on and took off(for fear if I let it idle too long it would load up the plugs again) well I took off and it ran really well......smoked alot....at first anyway.....it says on the dash 20:1 so thats what I mixed it to.....and drove it around the house a few times.....then around in our feild......it seems to now run fine again.......I then parked it and went in for dinner.....and havent tried to restart yet.....it was getting dark/cold....and decided to let it go for the night.....you still think I should take the carb off.....to stretch the spring.....or do you think it was just a fluke....of some particle in the needle /seat?????I guess it would'nt hurt

hey steve.......your 1980 Citation SS (on Cow Island)....is this really a place......why is it there......????

steve03052 · 12-07-2005, 07:13 AM

Wow! 20:1 is a little rich for modern oils. I run the 73 elan on 50:1.

Some one corect me if I'm wrong, but I think that when a mixed gas sled is idling it tends to build up oil in the crank case. Openning it up will clear that out. So I think you did the right thing with the motoski. Try adding some 50:1 gas before you take anything apart.

Cow island is near Tuftonboro New Hampshire in lake Winnipesaukee. I bought the Citiation in 1989 for $900 (it had a 1000 miles on it, no rips in the seat, hood intact), rode the crap out of it for 3 years until I got the Mach 1. A friend of mine has a camp on Cow Island, I used to leave the sled there all year round, in the shed at his camp. Once the lake froze I'd just walk out to his camp - there's no bridge to Cow Island - and drag it out and away I'd go. All of Winnipesaukee and the surounding area to ride in - it was fantastic!

He and I had a falling out in 1993 (the fool got married) and I didn't care about the Citiation so I left it there. He tells me that his bother got it running last year and has been riding it. He has stored it so long for free I really don't have the heart to take it now that someone is riding it.