g1teg

So I picked up a 97 Skidoo Formula Z 583. I am new to snowmobiles, 2 strokes and carbs... What a treat!

So the sled looks in great shape. everything is clean, new track, new belts, new skis. Everything is well taken care of, no cracks or damage, and a new seat.

When I called, the guy let me know that he intermittently had issues with starting. He was going to put new plugs in, and see if that helped. This guy owned it for a short time, bought for his wife and kids but they couldn't pull start it. (no electric). When I went to see it, the machine started first pull. I rode it, and everything felt great.

After riding for a bit, I shut it off, and once again we couldn't get it to start. I went back the next day with a truck to pick up the sled. After reading on here and other forums, I figure this is just a carb cleaning issue or a leaking primer, or something simple like that.

Tonight I pulled the plugs after not being able to start it for a while, they are full of gas. (NGK BR9ES) I manage to get the most grunts out of it, when the gas is shut off. I also bought a cheap compression tester, and found some concerning results. One cylinder measures 125, the other just 30!

So,

- could the compression be contributing to the starting issue?
- can I ride it like this till spring?
- what possible causes are there for poor compression on one cylinder?
- Start up tips for a prime engine?

If ive missed any info you need, please ask. I can upload pics too of any specific areas you might like to see.

Polarcticat

You have a dead cylinder. You need to rebuild that side( mag side I'm guessing, that is the side of the engine with the brakes and chain case not clutches)
At least if not both... Just to be fresh


Sent from my iPhone using Snowmobile.com App

CkC

If it sat for a long time the rings could be stuck on the piston in that one cylinder, you could take the plug out and put some oil or wd40 in the cylinder and let it sit a few days and see if it frees up. Most likely you'll just have to tear it down and rebuild that side at least. Was the engine warm when you went to go look at it? Maybe the guy got it running before you came over, when the cylinder/piston is warmed up it might get enough compression to run. Coulda been his whole reason for selling it, who knows. Either way, no fun good luck.

g1teg

Yes it's the side with the brake. How involved and expensive is the rebuild? Something a new to 2 stroke guy should attempt?

The engine may have been warm, I'm not too worried about the guy tricking me into buying it. I think the sled is worth what I paid, I just need to get it running. So I need a more detailed idea of what I should do now, Im googling how to rebuild. Is this a day job?


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Snowmobile.com App

Snowweasel

Could be a day job. First things first. Buy a service manual. Don't even touch the sled till u have a cd or hardcopy manual on hand. How did the plug look on the bad cylinder? Try repeating the comp test several times to get an accurate reading. Is that sled a monoblock? Because it's your first rebuild, try taking lots of pictures along the way. It will help u with remembering where things go, and if u post some here, we can help u out. Sorry to hear the guy F$@!?D u. The very first sled I ever owned was a 95 xlt. Brought it home, 1 mile later the crank snapped in half (no joke), worst experience I have ever had.

2 stroke rebuilds are pretty straight forward. But the few things u have to remember are: u must keep every thing very very clean. No dirt can find it's way into that engine. And 2: lots and lots of assembly lube.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPod touch using Snowmobile

__________________
-my ride
2003 arctic cat zl550 (looking to sell)

g1teg

Im looking for where to buy the manual right now. Ive always gotten them for my cars, so I understand their value.

I would like to do the repair this weekend, will my local shop have the parts? is there a kit that I should be asking for?

Snowweasel

Go eBay for the manual. The shop will most likely not have parts for u. Go on mfgsupply or Dennis Kirk.com they will have gasket kits and pistons. U will also need new coolant, oil, etc. When doing a 2 stroke rebuild u wan to run mineral oil for the break in, and make sure u mix in the tank too. I'm sure someone will chime in with more detail.


Sent from my iPod touch using Snowmobile

__________________
-my ride
2003 arctic cat zl550 (looking to sell)

g1teg

I downloaded the manual from BRP. Looks pretty detailed. Ill print it out and bind it at work.

As for the parts, I would really like to do this job on Saturday, as I have the time and a buddy coming over. Ill look around tomorrow locally.

as for what I need, is it just rings and gaskets, or am I changing the pistons themselves as well?

Polarcticat

Should be fun! That's how I look at it!


Sent from my iPhone using Snowmobile.com App

g1teg

Agreed, as long as its not too costly! And I can get parts to do it this weekend. I don't want to just look at my new sled for long.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Snowmobile.com App

Snowweasel

Try ur local dealer for parts. They might have something for u. Or try putting an add on craigslist. I would definitely recommend replacing the piston. Pistons are one thing u always change in a rebuild. Because when a piston fails, it brings the entire engine along with it. U don't want to reuse it and have it fail.


Sent from my iPod touch using Snowmobile

__________________
-my ride
2003 arctic cat zl550 (looking to sell)

g1teg

So Ive got my pistons out. What a great machine to work on! Things are all so easy to get out.

anyway, a piece of the piston ring had snapped, and bounced around hot on the one side. As you can see from the images, there is some damage to the piston, (I'm changing both) and some damage to the head. I didn't order any parts because I wasn't sure if this had ever been rebuilt before. Id look funny with some 75.89 pistons and an over bored cylinder... Turns out the pistons are stock.

Questions then...

1. the head has some small damage, none of those pits is deeper than ~ .005". Plan is to smooth them out as best i can and reuse this. Any objections?

2. I want to use new cast pistons. I have read a lot about the advantages/disadvantages of the forged, and I think I will be fine with Cast. With that said, I cant find my sled in the SPI/SPX catalog. My local sled shop says "if its not listed, there's a reason!" but they do list 97 583cc pistons for the mxz... Mine is the formula. Did ski-doo make a different version of the 583 in the same year? or should I be OK with any 97 583 pistons?

Ski-Doo wants $200/piston and 220 for the gaskets... a bit much!

Polarcticat

Wiseco?


Sent from my iPhone using Snowmobile.com App

Polarcticat

http://www.wiseco.com/ProductSearch.aspx


Sent from my iPhone using Snowmobile.com App

g1teg

Thanks Polarcticat,

I looked at the wiseco, but Im told that the break in and warmup periods are quite long, and if not strictly adhered to, the pistons have a tendency to misshape and seize.

without any personal experience, from what I read, I was hoping to replace with a cast, such as API/APX which admittedly wont be as strong, but Im not racing this anyway!

Any advice on the head damage?

minisrint521

Stick with cast pistons . MXZ pistons are the same as fz. use sandpaper to knock the high spots down as even as posible on your head.Make sure u remove any piston pieces out of the crankcase before putting back together.