arbowman

Hello. New member here. I have a situation that I would like some opinions on. I have a Honda FL350 Odyssey off-road buggy that has a blown stock motor. I am looking to buy a Rotax powered sled so I can swap the engine and other necessary parts needed into the Odyssey. The Rotax engines seem to be the most popular choice for Odyssey engine swaps. There is a guy on ebay that makes the engine mounts for Rotax engines so that is why I am looking to buy a Ski Doo sled. From what I have read, the Rotax 583 is a good engine for the swap but I have seen posts with Rotax 470's and 670's in them. I found a 94 Formula Z 583 with 4500 miles on craigslist for $350. The ad says it runs strong. There is no electric start but I know that it can be added fairly cheap and easily. The only bad thing is that the sled is 3.5 hours away from my location. I am pretty sure this is a good buy but I want some confirmation from some sled heads before I drive 200 miles and hand over $350. I texted the guy tonight and he still has it for sale. So here is what I need some opinions on: Is this sled a good buy? What are some possible things that would not make this sled a good buy? What should I be looking for or be aware of? I will not be doing this engine swap anytime soon, so I might be using this sled next winter if we actually get some snow next year. I have never driven a sled so I would like to have some fun with it before I tear it apart so I want a good working sled. I have a few other questions. What years and models of Ski Doos have the 583 engine? Are there any differences in the 583 Rave engines that are in the different years and models of Ski Doos? The description for the ebay motor swap mount says it works with 470,521,580, and 670 Rotax engines. Which one is the best? What are the differences in these and other Rotax engines? Any advice or info about Rotax engines or Rotax powered Ski Doos is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

smallengineguy

The 583 was a great, bulletproof engine used for many years. I have a 2000 touring sled with a 583 in it. Make sure it has the bosses in the block for an electric starter mount; some did, some didn't. Is this a whole sled for $350? Is it wrecked?? Sounds like an awful low price for a whole sled.

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Renagade

^^^agree^^^
for that money, i bet somthings wrong.
tunnel tweeked, bearings on shafts bad,
compression low,could be anything.
check it over, or bring a buddy that
knows bout sleds.

welcome to the site, lots of info here!!!

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current sleds
04 rev800ho gade
95 formulaIII 600
77 olympic 340e-mint!!

arbowman

Thanks for the replies! I agree with everyone about the low price being suspicious. Yes, this is a complete and strong running sled for only $350 according to the craigslist ad. It is not wrecked and looked ok in the photos. The ad also said this sled pulls the skis 3 feet in the air when it hits the powerband and that the seat was ripped and taped up. So maybe the ripped seat is the reason for the low asking price? I am concerned mainly with the engine though. Do you guys think I should do a compression check on both cylinders before I buy? What else should be checked over?

Snowweasel

Definitely do a compression check, also look at the plugs closely. Look for flakes of aluminum and the color to determine how the engine is running. If the guy cleans the plugs before you by there, that is a huge red flag. I had that happen to me once, I ended up buying the sled and it blew up on me. If he can, have the guy cold start it for u, and before that make sure the engine is cold by feeling the sides of the cylinders and the y pipe. Also grab the primary clutch and give it a wiggle. If it moves more then a 1/4in the crank bearings are bad.

One more thing that I highly recommend doing is: bring a can of starter fluid and while the engine is running spray it around the crank seals and carb boots. If RPMs increase you have an air leak into the engine that can create a lean condition.


Sent from my iPod touch using Snowmobile

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JD8345RT

Great engine, but I agree, the price sounds too low. Could be legitimate for this time of year, but check it over thoroughly.

Take everything he says with a grain of salt.

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tioga

where is it ill buy it for that price and fix whats wrong and still be worth it

arbowman

Does anybody have a link for a compression check how-to? What psi is ok? What psi is ideal? I'm prolly not gonna spray the intakes or anything like that to check for vacuum leaks. I will look at everything closely. I will check the plugs. If ANYTHING looks suspicious I'm not buying it. I will tell him that I want to see it cold started. It should start right up, then idle, and rev easily correct? How do I see the sled work correctly with no snow on the ground? I know nothing about snowmobiles but I am good with ATVs and dirt bikes. I am really only interested in making sure the engine is ok. I am not worried about the chassis at all. If this engine runs ok and doesn't show any signs of neglect or damage I will probably buy the sled. You guys did say the 583 is near "bulletproof" but what would be the first thing to fail on a Rotax engine? I will need the primary clutch off course. How do I check that? I need to ask the seller if the engine has the electric starter bosses. I want to be able add electric start. That could be a deal breaker. There is a 95 Formula STX 583 three hrs from me for $600 on craigslist so I could always check that out. Thanks again!

aduck

i bought my 94 2 yrs ago for 100 bucks should of kept it. but my buddy is still riding the snot out of her. great motors definately follow as others have said. depending on where your located i have a good 583 just needs a stator i can let go of.

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arbowman

I will probably be going to look at that sled in the next week or so. I would like to do a compression check on the engine before I buy it. Does anybody know where I can find a tutorial on a compression check? How do I test the engine and drivetrain with no snow on the ground? I am a total noob when it comes to snowmobiles. Any advice or info is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

RJ Gleason

Hold throttle wide open, leave ignition off, pull bothe plugs, pull over until gague stops rising.
Cold will read slightly higher than warm.

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arbowman

I bought that 94 Ski-Doo Formula Z 583 today for $350. It has 4500 miles on it and looks ok. The seller started it up on the first pull. I am not sure if it was warm already when he started it but he said the engine was cold and that he had started it that morning to make sure it would run for me. I didn't do a compression check. The seller said he did a compression check when he first got it and that it was around 130-140 psi. The engine sounded healthy so I wasn't too worried about it.

The seller had the rear of the sled on a stand when he started it. I revved the engine and the track spun but there was a delay until the revs climbed. I am not sure when and how fast the track should have been spinning but it did spin so I am assuming the clutch and drivetrain are in good working condition.

The story the seller gave me was that he got the sled from a guy he did some work for but the guy didn't have the money to pay for the job so he took the sled as payment. The seller said he rode the sled one time two years ago and that it was strong running and that he didn't have any problems with it. He said he didn't ride it at all last year. He told me he was selling it so cheap because he was losing his place to store it and needed it gone and he just wanted to get some of his $800 back from the job he did. He said nobody was interested in buying it on Craigslist for $500 which still seems really cheap to me for a complete running sled that only has a dry rotted track and a ripped seat cover. I just asked him what the lowest he would take for it before I ever saw it and he told me $350 so that is what I gave him.

I was looking at the front and rear shocks and they are different. The front shocks say HPG and have Bombardier written on them. The rear shocks have FOX on them.

Are the FOX shocks aftermarket? What about the HPG Bombardier front shocks?

Thanks in advance!

Renagade

well buddy, ive been in his shoes.
trying to recoup some money he was supposed
to get paid, instead he got stuck with sled!!

not a bad deal for you though, sounds like
it runs pritty good.
the clutch should grab around 4k.

a swap meet would be a good place to look
for a track, seat, and whetever else you notice over summer.

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current sleds
04 rev800ho gade
95 formulaIII 600
77 olympic 340e-mint!!

Gaylord Huta

I would never drive 7 hours to buy a $350 sled. Your time has got to be worth more than thats worth. The 583s are everywhere, post a WANTED ad on craigslist and watch as the offers pour in. You just spent 2 tanks of gas and a whole day wasted. That $350 sled just turned into a $600 sled.

but if your happy with it, thats all that matters. Good luck with the swap!

Renagade

i drove 8hrs, there & back, for
my olympic.
well worth the trip, thanks "just4play" !!! a member here.

but heard it run at martin mi, and drove it around
his yard in 1\2in of snow!

brought all my diag tools, but didnt need them.
im always prepaired.

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current sleds
04 rev800ho gade
95 formulaIII 600
77 olympic 340e-mint!!

arbowman

Hey Gaylord, I am not in Minnesota like you. I am in south central PA where we don't get much snow so I seriously doubt the "offers will roll right in" for a locally owned 583 Rotax powered sled. Even if I do get some offers, I doubt anybody would be willing to let there decent condition and running sled go for much less than $410 (350+60 for gas) which is what I have into mine. Yeah, it was 7.5 hours of driving but it was a beautiful day and a nice scenic drive so it wasn't bad at all.

Do you really think I could get a running 583 sled for $300-$350 in my area?

I'm not sure that would happen where I am. Maybe I would get lucky but who knows. The closest other 583 sled for sale was 3 hours away and the guy wanted $600 so this seemed like a good deal to me. Maybe I'm wrong and I got ripped off. Oh well. It was $400 and some time.

Maybe I could have gotten something cheaper if I lived in Minnesota where I'm sure these things are everywhere.

Gaylord Huta

I apologize if I offended you. Update your profile so others know your location.

They're a dime a dozen here, which is what I was basing my post on.

I'd like to know what truck you drive that you can drive 7.5 hours on $60 of gas! Thats what 3/4 of a tank.... maybe?

arbowman

You didn't offend me. I thought that I got a pretty good deal on the sled so I was kinda bummed out when you said I wasted my time and money. I was unaware my profile did not have my location. I drive a 1990 2wd Nissan truck BTW. It gets pretty good gas mileage when I don't have a lead foot. I probably burned a little bit more than $60 in gas. I had less than a 1/4 tank and I put $60 in it before I started the trip and it got me there and back. I know my mileage went way down when I had that super heavy sled on the back!

Gaylord Huta

lol you saved a fortune on gas anyways! Again good luck with the build and be sure to come back and post pics and even a vid of the beast in action!

The 583 makes right around 102 hp, what did the honda motor originally make? I bet that things gonna haul the mail!

arbowman

I'm not sure what HP the original Honda air cooled 2-stroke had but I'm pretty sure it wasn't more than 50hp. I don't even think I could fix the original engine for less than $400. They were known to have piston issues. Its gonna take me awhile to restore the Odyssey I have so here is a video of an Odyssey with a 470 Rotax engine.