meburdick

You might be better off dumping the cover and just getting a new one. I found a listing for one kind of cheap that will fit your sled, and I sent the guy a message. I'll let you know what he says when he gets back to me.

__________________
2002 Edge X 500: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...45853579342449
1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

Holy crap, have i been way off my rocker... Are you telling me everything i have been told to date was way off? Ok, well thanks for setting this idiot straight...

Ok, so reading that makes more sense.

So after i put that pinion gear back on (and yes i have the bolt and the o-ring), then i should be able to get the cover back on...and i think it was the actual reverse gear that was stopping it.
As to securing the retaining cup and spring, i get what you are saying and will get on that tomorrow. Had no idea that was sitting incorrect.
So the shift fork should grab to the grooves in that cup, correct?

Pistol_Pete

Hey, by the way, thanks for the info so far. You are clearing up alot of things that re not making sense to a guy who has no idea about these

And never mind about the shift fork question, just saw your previous post on that one.

More questions to follow tomorrow i am sure...

meburdick

I don't know if what I'm telling you is different... I'm just making sure that we're both referring to things by their right names. I'll have to dig around and find the Reverse Kit Installation Instructions which would clear up a lot of the general assembly for you.

As far as that fork... It engages the actual gear through the groove. That "cup" is a retaining item that keeps the spring in place, and the spring is what returns the reverse gear to its "regular" position when you disengage reverse.

__________________
2002 Edge X 500: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...45853579342449
1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

So, ,in regards to the above quote and referencing the picture that i posted earlier -
1. In the picture, is the cup sticking too far out? Should it be more flush to the gear?
2. In the picture, is "reverse" engaged or is it in "forward"? (i got the chain case in disassembled condition and trying to figure out how the cable from the selector goes and attaches to the fork lever as i think i may be missing some outside stuff)

i_play_bass

This is why I'm glad my '93 Classic is bare bones... No elec., no rev. fewer things to have problems with! Good luck with the repairs!

__________________
Current sled: 1993 Polaris Indy Classic 500 L/C Image Gallery
2012/13 Pics

http://youtu.be/PQDGNqrw4Eg

Past sleds:
1991 Ski-Doo Formula Plus 583 L/C 2-up (Sold in 2003)
1988 Ski-Doo Citation 250 (Sold in 2002)

Pistol_Pete

ok, picture time....

1. so in the first picture, this is the case as it sits at present. i know that gears are turning as there is chain fluid on all gears and chain. The only difference between this picture and when i started this thread was that the outer pinion gear is now back on. (It was this gear that originally broke and seemed to be preventing me from getting the case back on....maybe it was just my bad at first?...I figured it looked like reverse gear was actuated when the fork pulled the bottom gear out and engaged the outer pinion gear. Was this assumption wrong?)

2. #2 photo is close up of the reverse gear and the retaining cup. I see the retaining cup butted up against the spline and does not appear to be able to go on any further. I received it this way with the bolt and reverse gears intact (hence the confusion as i was using the wrong terminology at the beginning.)
Does this spring need to be further compressed on here or is this suitable?

3. #3 picture is the inside of the cover. The bead is pretty well contained, i did grind it down a bit but looks ok to me????

Any further feedback to these?

Attached Thumbnails

     

Pistol_Pete

also, in regards to the spring on the reverse gear assemble...should i be able to move that out by hand with the engine off?

Pistol_Pete

no kidding, huh?
I guess it doesnt help that i am usually in dirt bikes and quads...so easy. the motor spins a chain which turns the wheel...

It is a good learning experience for sure.

Pistol_Pete

update -
case cover off, spinning the track shows the bottom (reverse gear) spinning with it.

Pistol_Pete

ok, finally got the new pinion gear on, reverse gear intact, all spinning good and the cover is back on with a little help from a hammer. i think everything is buttoned up.

now if she will just damn stay lit

meburdick

The "cup" only goes in so far, and yours is in the right position. Engaging reverse pulls on the actual reverse gear and compresses that spring. When you release the reverse, the spring pushes the reverse gear back in and it "couples" with the lower gear.

In the forward mode, the chain spins the lower gear clockwise, it being coupled to the reverse gear spins IT clockwise, and the reverse gear being coupled to the driveshaft spins IT clockwise.

In the reverse mode, the chain spins the lower gear clockwise. The reverse gear, having been drawn away from the lower gear, is no longer coupled to it. Instead, the teeth engage with the outer pinion gear (which is also spinning clockwise) and this results in the reverse gear spinning COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. Again, since the reverse gear is coupled to the driveshaft, it spins the driveshaft counter-clockwise.

It's super important to have blue Loc-Tite on that bolt for the reverse / lower gear assembly. Otherwise, you run the risk of that bolt loosening up and causing issues inside that case.

__________________
2002 Edge X 500: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...45853579342449
1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

makes sense, thanks for the explanation. seemed more logical as i ripped into it today.

so it is all back together, fork is down in the groove and the spring non-compressed. Is it just me or does that spring have a pretty good compression to it? Cant move it by hand at rest but assume with the gear revolving, it will engage easier.

meburdick

That spring is what forces the reverse gear and lower gear together and keeps then coupled so you're sled will move forward. Think about how much force it has to resist against when you're going 75 and then ask that question again.

__________________
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1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

Ahhh....so your saying physics is pretty strong, eh?....
Thanks-

meburdick

E=mc^2

It's not just a good idea, it's the law.

__________________
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1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

Thats for sure.

Can i bother you for an interpretation of a compression check?

So, its the indy 500.
Ignition off
Kill switch engaged
Both plugs out and grounded
Trottle wide open
5 pulls each cylinder

Left cylinder reads 90
Right cylinder 86

Your thoughts?

meburdick

Here's the process that I use to do a compression check:

Pull the plugs and set them aside. Make sure the sled is off and the motor is completely cold. Connect the gauge to a cylinder, hold the throttle wide open, pull (or crank the E/S) until the needle on the gauge doesn't climb any more.

Repeat for all cylinders.

For you, unless you know that your gauge is accurate, you might want to do a compression test on a machine that's "known good". Gauges do vary, and sometimes read too high or too low.

If you know your gauge is good, I would recommend the following courses of action:

- 120+ per cylinder: Go ride.
- 110-120, be aware that you aren't getting max performance, go ride.
- 100-110, be aware of your motor and heed any noticeable changes in sound or performance. If it's the off season, tear down the top end and freshen it up. If it's during the season, you can keep riding knowing that your performance is sub-par. Don't "push" it too hard.
- 100 or less, freshen the top end before something breaks and it ends up costing you a lot more money to repair.

__________________
2002 Edge X 500: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...45853579342449
1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513

Pistol_Pete

The tester is brand new, will assume it is somewhat accurate at this point.

Ok, went and re-did it just as you noted above but using electric starter this time.
Got both cylinders to inch over 100 - 105 on right, 104 on left

Assuming this sled is to be used around our cabin, probably within one mile of the front door on mostly groomed trails, fireroads, etc easy going, i should be ok from a strictly just for "screwing around on a first sled" type of riding, yeah?
Oh, and if stuff breaks, will be an excuse to upgrade next year...just wan the wife to get a taste of it since she makes the decisions...

meburdick

New doesn't mean accurate...

You're fine for this year... Ride it. Just don't push it too hard, and rebuild the top end in the spring.

__________________
2002 Edge X 500: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...45853579342449
1998 Indy 440: https://plus.google.com/photos/11364...10516040672513