10% Ethenol in New York pumps - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

white lightning · 11-13-2012, 10:13 AM

Something I want to ask to know for sure. I know theres 10% ethenol at the 87 rating pumps in NY .. does that mean theres 10% in 89, 91 or higher octane too? Does anyone really know the answer to this? WL.

**RJ Gleason** · 11-13-2012, 10:16 AM

It is 10% in all grades in most places. If you go up to Tugg Hill, you can get 93 with no ethanol, but it is pricey.

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Skidoo shredder · 11-13-2012, 10:17 AM

No as you go up higher in octane the ethanol percentage goes down. I only run 91 or 93 in my sleds (93 if available). 93 has the least ethanol in it

white lightning · 11-13-2012, 10:22 AM

RJ .. I did see that at the Yamaha dealer outside of (east) Old Forge on rte 28 that they sell non-ethenol and youre right, it IS pricey.

SdS - if its true. how much ethenol in 93octane then?

WL

**BC_Dan** · 11-13-2012, 10:31 AM

The amount of alcohol in the gas here is displayed on the pump

white lightning · 11-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Only reason I asked is to verified because I have others telling me the 10% is at the 87 ratings and not on any higher octane. BC .. we have a sticker that says "10%" on the pump .. it doesnt say, "at all grades" (And they should so others like myself do not get confused" In the past .. I have heard mixed stories stated, "yes" from some and others have said "NO" WL

Outlander33 · 11-13-2012, 10:59 AM

Do you guys have any Phillip 66 stations over there? I know over here in Idaho all Phillip 66 stations don't have any ethanol in their gas. or at least, in the mid to southern part of the state.. lol, I guess I can't say for sure none of them in Idaho do.

Jkjeeper06 · 11-14-2012, 08:15 AM

The higher the octane the hotter it'll burn. I'm new to snowmobiles but not new to ethanol problems. I've been doing this in my boats and jet ski for years. The best thing I find is running 91-93 octane with starbrite ethanol treatment. This breaks it down and it's safe in all 2 strokes and 4 strokes

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white lightning · 11-14-2012, 09:10 AM

J06 - wrong. the higher the octane, the slower it burns and cooler the motor runs. WL

Jkjeeper06 · 11-14-2012, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

J06 - wrong. the higher the octane, the slower it burns and cooler the motor runs. WL

You sure? Cuz it contains more potential energy in the fuel and during combustion that energy is released. Since its the same process, it will have the same percentage of energy dissipated in the form of heat. The higher energy multiplied by the same percentage= higher heat

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white lightning · 11-14-2012, 09:47 AM

Im very sure -- thinking about this for a minute .. why do race engines needs higher octane to run? They produced higher HP and higher compression heads .. if you run 87octane .. the gas would explode as it compressed in its cycle before the spark plug (pinging) would shoot off a spark. So you would need higher octane to slow the burn down and in result .. the motor runs cooler. Google it up and read up more on it. WL.

Jkjeeper06 · 11-14-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

Im very sure -- thinking about this for a minute .. why do race engines needs higher octane to run? They produced higher HP and higher compression heads .. if you run 87octane .. the gas would explode as it compressed in its cycle before the spark plug (pinging) would shoot off a spark. So you would need higher octane to slow the burn down and in result .. the motor runs cooler. Google it up and read up more on it. WL.

Before we hijack the thread I just looked it up. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1825247

We are both wrong. Octane is the resistance to burn under compression, which is why race engines and engines with forced aspiration need it. Octane doesn't have anything to do with energy or heat dissipation. It does burn longer yes, but not cooler.

To answer the OP's question I think we agree that a higher octane will help burn ethanol better. I like starbrite too but it might just be snake oil

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**RJ Gleason** · 11-14-2012, 10:30 AM

It is true, higher octane rating = lower run temps.
It takes a stronger spark to ignite and burns cleaner.
If you have engine knock, the next higher octane will eliminate that as the knock is actually predetonation.

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white lightning · 11-14-2012, 10:38 AM

Yes and No - depending on HOW we are talking about it. If your engine is designed to run at the min. of 87 rating - its pointless to use 94octane because IF someone tells you its a better fuel and youd get more hp. Not true .. running a 94 in a 87 engines ... the engine will run sluggish - the burn is too slow and therefore the heat doesnt get as hot as it would be in a 87. In a race engines .. for an example of my '95 XCR6 - it was modded to run 112 rating. If I ran 87 .. I would definitely BLOW it up because its way too hot for the application. Thats what I meant by "cooler" to place it in that therory. I agree with RJ. WL

1ninjanina · 12-01-2012, 05:01 PM

I live in Rochester, and FastTrac sells 93. I've seen it at more than one FastTrac around the state. I work all over New York for my job. Don't know of any other gas stations that sell it.

Delta Sonic sells 100, racing fuel at like $10 a gallon. lol I know you're not going to put it in a snowmobile, but that's just ridiculous.

Daggerdoggie · 12-01-2012, 05:31 PM

This may help:

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

bertschb · 12-01-2012, 09:10 PM

I don't know which type of fuel burns hotter but I know ethanol is BAD for small engines that sit for any length of time. I go to great lengths and expense to avoid ethanol in my sleds, boats, lawnmowers, chain saws, etc.

It's expensive but I'm really glad the EPA hasn't yet passed rules to outlaw it.

saranac1973 · 12-02-2012, 12:43 AM

Most of the Fasttrax convenient in central NY stores sell 91 no ethanol..not to much over 87 about 15-20 cents..

white lightning · 12-03-2012, 10:19 AM

I do know you have to up ONE main jet if youre going to use that type of fuel. Whats really bad is when you let the gas sit for quite a while .. is causing the problems. (I agree with bertschb) Daggerdoggie - thanks for the link. Thats AWESOME and others can benefit that important informations too. WL