1996 Ultra 680 compression? - Page 2 - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

white lightning · 09-18-2012, 09:46 AM

Great price on OEM parts. Im kinda surprised that the SPI cost more than the OEM now - it wasnt like that before. Im not really fimilar with the Ultra engines as far as waterpump goes - I do know some uses oil to keep it lubicated. If the plastic gear is stripped all the way around .. is it bad that you have to replace it? How are the bearings on each ends? That could be the culprit why the engine overheated in the first place. You may have to replace the bearings and the plastic gear - they are an expensive. WL

Mighty Quinn · 09-18-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

Great price on OEM parts. Im kinda surprised that the SPI cost more than the OEM now - it wasnt like that before. Im not really fimilar with the Ultra engines as far as waterpump goes - I do know some uses oil to keep it lubicated. If the plastic gear is stripped all the way around .. is it bad that you have to replace it? How are the bearings on each ends? That could be the culprit why the engine overheated in the first place. You may have to replace the bearings and the plastic gear - they are an expensive. WL

When I get them
(pistons) here in front of me & see it for myself ,then we'll see,but I could'nt pass that up.Now for the water pump there was maybe a table spoon of oil in there & it looks like it got hot & brittle ,little chucks of the plastic gear were everywhere . This is off the origanal motor that I just pulled out of the sled ,but the motor that I puchased some time back has a good gear on the pump,but I have the feeling I will have to take it apart & replace bearings & seals just to be safe.

On the origanal motor I noticed the numbers 68B stamped on the top of all three pistons ,Must be the origanal ones? With the motor that I puchased One of them had 89D stamped simular to the 68B in location & size of printing.

Queston though....can I make a little video of all this on this forum? ,Or just pics? ,cause I type like a turtle.

white lightning · 09-19-2012, 10:05 AM

I keep forgetting you bought a spare engine. Thats good you do have another one and you can swap parts out the other and make ONE good running engine. I am going to assume, that 68B .. the "68" means 680cc - Im not sure what 89D means off on the one that you purchased. I wonder if its OEM brand or is it aftermarket. Is the engine that you bought a same year engine as the an original? WL.

Mighty Quinn · 09-19-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

I keep forgetting you bought a spare engine. Thats good you do have another one and you can swap parts out the other and make ONE good running engine. I am going to assume, that 68B .. the "68" means 680cc - Im not sure what 89D means off on the one that you purchased. I wonder if its OEM brand or is it aftermarket. Is the engine that you bought a same year engine as the an original? WL.

Yup 2 of them 6 cylinders , 6 heads , 6 carbs , 6 coils ,2 water pumps ,2 cranks ,2 mags ect...... ya wierd with #'s on the pistons ,maybe in production they changed the #'s on them later in production,cause the one with the ser #1780 on the block has the 68B stamped on the pistons ,the other motor that I purchased is off a 1996 ultra sp with ser# 7780 exsactly with the one piston # 86D

as of yet?

white lightning · 09-20-2012, 01:54 PM

Im not 100% sure .. I dont think Polaris did a mid season change in production in terms of engine change in '96. However .. ULTRA's were built from '96 - '98 .. SP, and SPX, uses the same engines, except for SP use single pipe while the SPX use triples. '97 SPX were one year model and I believe they change over to XCR7 for '98. '99 XCR7 came with one year wonder with power valves before they pulled it off the market for good the following year. WL.

Mighty Quinn · 09-21-2012, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

Im not 100% sure .. I dont think Polaris did a mid season change in production in terms of engine change in '96. However .. ULTRA's were built from '96 - '98 .. SP, and SPX, uses the same engines, except for SP use single pipe while the SPX use triples. '97 SPX were one year model and I believe they change over to XCR7 for '98. '99 XCR7 came with one year wonder with power valves before they pulled it off the market for good the following year. WL.

Ya, I guess it's hard to say then.Interesting that the 99' XCR 700 came out with power valves only for one year? I would think that would of made that motor even better in throttle responce & mid range power umm... I bet thoughs cylinders are hard to find?

On the motor that I purchased the piston on the PTO side had 90lbs. No damage except the bottom ring was stuck closed ,that defenatly would drop my compression in that cylinder. But,how did that ring get stuck in the ring groove? Could it be upside down?,cause I even tryed taking a small pick tool to dislodge it with wd 40 & still it will not come out .

**RJ Gleason** · 09-21-2012, 08:29 AM

Soak it with penetrating oil first.
Two reasons that rings get stuck, 1 is gunk from running too much oil at low speeds, 2 is from overheating and metal particles getting into the ring gap.

Mighty Quinn · 09-21-2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

Soak it with penetrating oil first.
Two reasons that rings get stuck, 1 is gunk from running too much oil at low speeds, 2 is from overheating and metal particles getting into the ring gap.

Hello RJ, Well... seems like a mistery , cause your #1 theroy I kind of tryed but no avail as of yet.# 2 theroy there is no scoring on these pistons on my purchased motor, or signs of overheating hmmm....

Mighty Quinn · 09-23-2012, 06:04 AM

Well... found out theroy #3 for the stuck bottom piston ring on the pto with90lb. compression....in the
(puchased motor) someone put in the ring upside down! Tapered part of the ring was facing down.

Mighty Quinn · 09-23-2012, 07:24 AM

In deeper news the (origanal) Water Pump was a must to finish taking apart, Shaft was rusty making it difficult to remove the impeller which says the seal was leaking for a long time,which showed out the weep hole on the pump & antifreeze on the lower cross member in the sled.
With the gear being stripped it also showed signs of getting hot (No Oil!!!) .In taking the gear off the seal cover on the inner sealed bearing was bubbled (cooked)! Probably after that the gear found a dead spot in the stripped gears & stopped turning ,which in turn stops the immpeller from turning ,& then got warm enough to score all three pistons.
So all you guy's out there with this style of pump be forwarned! Make sure there is oil in there! It takes 50cc. of 0W40 synthetic when empty.It should be checked regularly !!! Also should be changed every season ,(just my 2 cents)for you all out there.

Mighty Quinn · 09-24-2012, 07:37 AM

Damn , lost all the info that I finished typing for you guys ! OK Tryed pulling the flywheel off with new flywheel puller 2 streched bolts 1 broke off with electric impact . Tryed new bolts with heat & some big creasent wrenches & a 6 lb. sledge & taping on the end of the puller bolt, & then snuging it up a bit tighter & tapping it again nothing!

. Man O man, these polaris flywheels are stubborn !

Any other ideas

? This thing is still siting there with all the tention still on it.

white lightning · 09-24-2012, 12:14 PM

Wish you didnt live so far away otherwise Id help ya out. As for the waterpump .. I had an issue with my '99 XCR8 back in the early '00 ... the one bearing seized up, kept the shaft from turning and snapped the plastic gear right off the shaft. Thats how I cooked my motor that one evenning while out riding. Yes many of you would ask me "what happened to your HIGH TEMP light .. did that come on" Yes it did .. but it wasnt in the high temp slot - somehow that came out. I have NO idea how that had happened, I only found that out like 6mos later when I was working on the summer project .. rebuilding the entire engine. If I had known the engine was overheating, I would have shut it down.

As for the flywheel puller -- I thought there were 3-bolt pattern (onto the flywheel) and one center bolt to pressed on the crankshaft. That shouldnt be too hard to get the flywheel off. Im not sure Im understanding what yours is like. Anyone? WL

**BC_Dan** · 09-24-2012, 03:07 PM

Polaris flywheels are some of the toughest to remove sometimes. After bending a few less expensive pullers, I bought SLP's big boy to make that problem a non-issue.

Polaris - Maximum Duty Flywheel Puller - Starting Line Products

Haven't had to pull a flywheel since. Somehow, that figures

Mighty Quinn · 09-24-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white lightning

Wish you didnt live so far away otherwise Id help ya out. As for the waterpump .. I had an issue with my '99 XCR8 back in the early '00 ... the one bearing seized up, kept the shaft from turning and snapped the plastic gear right off the shaft. Thats how I cooked my motor that one evenning while out riding. Yes many of you would ask me "what happened to your HIGH TEMP light .. did that come on" Yes it did .. but it wasnt in the high temp slot - somehow that came out. I have NO idea how that had happened, I only found that out like 6mos later when I was working on the summer project .. rebuilding the entire engine. If I had known the engine was overheating, I would have shut it down.

As for the flywheel puller -- I thought there were 3-bolt pattern (onto the flywheel) and one center bolt to pressed on the crankshaft. That shouldnt be too hard to get the flywheel off. Im not sure Im understanding what yours is like. Anyone? WL

Thank you for the offer White Lightning, & the puller has just as you said ,but it is a beefer after market puller with a heavy base that sit's against the flywheel & a big torqing bolt hummm.... might need heavier pulling bolts they 8.8 stamped on the hex head .Is that grade 8 bolts?

Mighty Quinn · 09-25-2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Dan

Polaris flywheels are some of the toughest to remove sometimes. After bending a few less expensive pullers, I bought SLP's big boy to make that problem a non-issue.

Polaris - Maximum Duty Flywheel Puller - Starting Line Products

Haven't had to pull a flywheel since. Somehow, that figures

Ya this flywheel has attitude! I did look at the SLP ,but I kind of got scared of the price $ 140.00 plus tax ,over a $150.00 for a puller up here in CANADA.So I thought I'ed go for the $50 bucker look a like,& like you kinda said BC Dan ,how many times am I going to use it?

white lightning · 09-25-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Quinn

Thank you for the offer White Lightning, & the puller has just as you said ,but it is a beefer after market puller with a heavy base that sit's against the flywheel & a big torqing bolt hummm.... might need heavier pulling bolts they 8.8 stamped on the hex head .Is that grade 8 bolts?

The puller I have is from SNAP-ON. Im not sure what 8.8 stamped on exactly mean .. it is graded I suppose. Higher the grade, does it mean stronger or less stronger. Somebody has to know. Anyone? WL

white lightning · 09-25-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Quinn

Ya this flywheel has attitude! I did look at the SLP ,but I kind of got scared of the price $ 140.00 plus tax ,over a $150.00 for a puller up here in CANADA.So I thought I'ed go for the $50 bucker look a like,& like you kinda said BC Dan ,how many times am I going to use it?

Exactly .. but not only do I use it for snowmobiles .. you can use it on other things like lawnmowers and such

**RJ Gleason** · 09-25-2012, 08:09 AM

8.8 is the grade of steel, the higher the number, the harder it is.

Mighty Quinn · 09-25-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

8.8 is the grade of steel, the higher the number, the harder it is.

I'll have to look into it & see for that thread size how much higher a grade you can go?

Mighty Quinn · 09-28-2012, 07:15 AM

This is what I found for metric bolt stregnth in that thread size,
8.8 Proof load Yield min. Tensile min.
85,000 92,000 120,000
10.9 120,000 130,000 150,000

I have the 8.8 bolts for my flywheel puller .The 10.9 shows it is stronger,but how much can the treads in the flywheel handel before they are stripped out

?