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Old 12-13-2009, 02:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question 2002 Edge X 700 - Help

Hello,
My buddy just picked up a 2002 edge X 700 with approx. 4100 miles on it.
Previous owner seemed to take good care of it and the test drive went very well this fall but now that the season is here and our first ride behind us - we need some help.

First,
At low throttle (0-1/4) - it bogs/hesitates before gaining power and occasionally backfires. The plugs where dark/wet. So we know we have a rich mixture issue to deal with.
The carbs where torn down, did not appear to be extremely dirty and given a quick cleaning. We also adjusted the pilot mixture to lean this out (about a full turn out).
Plugs looked better and it idles much better but the bogging/hesitation is still there.
Do we need to do a full teardown and reclean? Plugs where still a touch on the dark/wet side but better - 1/2 turn out on pilot mixture?

Next,
At 1/4 to full throttle - it seems to run great but feels a little on tired side.
Top end needed? Clutch need to be given a tune up? Suggestions pls!

Last,
At idle - there is some banging going on that is causing the greatest concern.
It seems to be originating from the jugs.
It resembles some minor back firing coming from the pipes. When you go wide open - then let off the throttle completely is where it really becomes noticable. It gets worse on the premium fuel setting.

Any help or direction anyone can provide would be appreciated. We are somewhat new to sledding so our experience in diagnostics is limited.

Thanks all.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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what rpm does the clutch engage at? Dirty clutches do funny stuff.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Engagement is around the ~4000 mark - maybe just a touch higher.
It takes off smooth and doesnt seem to miss a beat - once you get past the initial hesitation. Primary and secondary look clean. Belt is also in good condition.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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clutch opperation is sounding okay. This knock could it be a spark knock like maybe a timing problem or low octane fuel. They put so much crap in todays gas. Are You using gas with ethanol in it? try some octane boost.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The station we fueled up at Friday is pretty reliable (BP).
He put 93 octane in.

I appreciate the thoughts and info - keep it coming!
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Don't know much about everything but it might need a full cleaning. What I do know is that because it's tired up to full throttle it probably needs a top end rebuild. Do you know the compressions on the cylinders?
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I wouldnt say its completely tired up to WOT - but it just seems to lack the punch a 700 should have.
Compression is unknown - something we may have to dig into.
I would also lean toward a new top end as well but I cant spend his $$ for him!

The more research I am doing, I am leaning toward carb issues.
Some things we plan to do in the next week or two:
-Check TPS to ensure its calibrated (~5v at wide open)
-Check oil injector to make sure its still lined up
-Teardown the carbs and give thorough cleaning
-Pull the reed cages and give them a look
-Check cable slack..etc
-Anything else?

Tools used for checking compression cost alot?
Thanks guys for the replies.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Compression Testers

Here's a link to Summit Racing's page where they have compression testers from $18.95 and up in case you can't find an inexpensive one locally. Great tool to have in general...
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Tools-Shop-Equipment/Part-Type/Compression-Testers/?Ns=Price|Asc
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I would check the timing that banging noise is detonation when you put your key on prem it actually advances the timing alittle which would make it worse. maybe the previous owner advanced the timing to much trying to get more power which will actually cause lose of power
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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and your sled has a fail safe limp mode if your temp sensor is bad or if its running hot because of the detonation it will go into limp mode and not run right on the 04 sleds they actually put a detonation sensor in them which made them go into limp mode if it detonated at all they sucked if you put pipes or any mods on them you had to disable it or it would be in limp mode all the time
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You should have to connect a wire when you are running premo for timing. Do not adjust the stator,etc..
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I had the same machine and I had a problem with lack of power and it turned out to be one of the exhaust valves was shot...wouldn't do more than 80mph. Not sure if this is the same problem, but hopefully it helps
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hey- how fast or what RPM does it go up to on limp -mode ?
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have also have that sled(02 700 XCSP EDGE ). When I'm trail riding or just riding in general I normally do not run it on the premium setting, I'll just run on Regular. No matter what, I always have 93 Octane in it. I'll throw it on Premium once in awhile, but like I said,I'll keep it on Regular mostly for gas mileage and engine wear and engine life , maybe it doesn't matter.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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First, you want to address the "tired and banging" issue. That sounds like some piston slap going on inside. Do a compression check, rings should hold 120PSI, I would pull the cylinders and assess the piston and rings, 4100 miles is about to take a looksy inside.
After that, you want to go back inside on the carbs, pull the pilot jet and run a small sewing needle through the pilot jet to clean out the crud and varnish build up. Check your main jets to see if they are stock, pull choke plungers and make sure they are functioning
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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All great info.
We rebuilt the valves just before the season with new bellows/springs so those are good to go.

Ill look into get the compression checked this week.
If its pulling say 110-120 on both - do we need to pull the jugs still?
Will you be able to see the piston skirts through the exaust and reed cage ports to look for slapping..etc.?

Thanks all!
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Decent compression tester at a auto store is around $25, and if the cylinders can hold above 110 PSI, should be ok. You can look at the skirts from the exhaust and carb side for any piston wear.
If it were me, I still would pull the cylinders, "AFTER" going through the carbs again. BC Dan has a good theory going about the main jet, tuff to go through 10 gallons of Gas in 40 miles. Stock jetting?
Clutching will also pull down the RPM's, bad spring in the secondary, pulling belt down prematurely. If you lift the back end up, can the motor pull 8K without weight on the sled?
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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if your comp. is good+you have cleaned the fuel system I would change the temp. senser before I tore it down. my 700 has 8300 miles still has 135psi on both cyl. I dont think your problem is there.go for the simplest things first.
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Here is an update on what we have done.
-Compression is good sitting at 120/130 per cylinder.
-TPS sensor is calibrated and looks good (4v at WOT).
-Carbs have been fully torn down and look great.
-Jetting is stock for our elevation (0-2000ft).
-Reeds look good, no cracks, boots are in great condition.

Need to put the carbs back in it this week and see what happens.
If it still hesitates - the manual indicates the pump diaphram could be bad?
Anyone have any experience with this?
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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My 700 has light noise at idle+shutoff this is from worn clutch weights+parts + could sound like it is comeing from the jugs, if you have never heard a worn clutch. mine has 8200 miles on it, if the pump diaphram is leaking + the gas is left on it will go into the crankcase pull the block plugs+ see if any gas comes out if it does+ has been that way long it could cause bearing wear on the crank bearings from lack of oil on them i.e. the noise, but I dont think this is likely.
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