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Old 09-19-2006, 09:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Engine locked...Help !!

Help!! Just got into sledding. Bought '97 xlt touring(under 400 miles, very nice) and '95 indy 500 trail 2-up with 1400 miles, also very nice. They have always been stored inside, with gas conditioner added after each season. Have not been used in 2 years. Upon getting them off the trailer(they are BIG) I find that the engine is locked on the 500. They were both running fine when last loaded. I removed the plugs to lube the cyl's and they are clean, smooth and look great. I removed the 10mm plug in crankcase and got a LOT of fuel- it was not as if it were normal gas- it seemed a bit heavier?? Found the fuel shut off was 'on'. I have worked a polaris atv single cyl...I'm thinking the crank bearings are where it might be siezed ?? Does this engine have a main bearing between cyls ? I dont think the fuel in crankcase would have been up to th ebearings..Thinking of removing engine to pursue this issue unless I can get it loosened up easily. I'm not in a hurry as I intend to do whatever service they need before use- which I know nothing about, yet, other that what I've read here and other places. Thanks for your help. Tony
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Does it turn even a little bit?? Or locked up solid? Can you grab the clutch & twist it back & forth?? Try a breaker bar on the clutch nut! Not sure why you think the crank bearing(s) are siezed especially with the prep you said was done?
Other things to check;
Mouse nest in cylinder.........pull exhaust header off to inspect.
Recoil/electric starter jammed up.......use breaker bar on clutch nut & turn backward.
Coolant leak into engine.......check coolant level.

Tryin' to help, but you gotta give us some more info.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I wouldn't think th ecrankbearing is siezed. That would be the last thing on the list. Were the engines fogged when they were put up for the season? If they weren't possibley the rings are siezed to the cylinder maybe. Dump some oil down the plug holes and let it sit for a day or 2 then try rolling it over niice and easy with a breaker bar. Other possiblity would be what IRS said. Mice could've gottin into the exaust and made there home in yur ccrankcase.
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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More info...

Thanks so far- here is more info- the clutch will not move, I have tried as much pressure as I feel possible(Dont break the clutch..) As I stated in orig post the cyls are clean and smooth and only summer prep was fuel conditioner.The recoil rope (no elec start, fan cooled) seems fine as far a rewinding.If something wass in cyl on case as mice nest it would move some-it is locked. The excess fuel (possible water- I couldnt tell) in cranckcase has me thinking bottom end. What else do you need to know ?? Could there be an issue in the rope pull side even though it seem fine.. I had a motorcycle years ago with these symptoms and it was in the crankcase- I know this is no motorcycle...Thanks Tony
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You never fogged the motor? Has it been started during this 2 yrs of storage?If so I feel that the rings are rusted to the cylinder walls.If you never fogged the motor there wouldn't be enough lubricant on the rings, and cylinder to last 2 yrs. The oils that was on them evaporated, and rust was created from the gas in the crankcase.The gas collects condensation in the tank, and the gas leaked in yur crankcase The gas in yur crankcase just means the needle&seats need to be replaced. Put some oil, or diesal fuel in the cylinders, and let it sit for a day or 2. I would do this to the other sled also even though it's not siezed.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If the motor was never fogged I'm going to have to agree with I triumph. The piston rings are probably rusted in there. Throw some penetrating oil down the hatch and let it sit for a while. If it wont loosen up than take off the cylinder head put the wooden handle of a hammer on the piston and lightly tap the top of that hammer with another. May loosen things up.
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It Moves..

Spent some time on the sled this eve and got it to move- it will turn 360 with a bar in the clutch side. I dont want to sound rude as I asking for suggestions, but I never fogged the engine because i just bought them as I stated in my prev post, along with the info that I have the ability to look in the cylinders AND THEY ARE NOT RUSTED THEY ARE SMOOTH AND LOOK FINE. Thats why I suggested the bottom..Now I have no idea as it will turn over with the bar but the pull rope doesnt have enough to turn it. I've pulled the carbs and now have another isssue- I was soaking the rings with crioil and the plastic spray extension slipped off and into th eplug hole- piston was at bottom and it somehow seems to have slipped through the port aand into the case, so it will have to come apart ,unless I can come up with some brainstorm...I've lubed the cyls in the newer sled and it seems fine- will clean carbs and new gas before I try to fire it.Both sled seen to be suffering from their lack of use. Thanks Tony
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If the cylinders look good, I'd agree that a crank bearing may have seized. If a crank seal let go last year, moisture may have gotten into the motor on that side.
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That sounds like something I would do!!
Try pulling the pipe (maybe the header, too) to see if you can get to that plastic straw. Like you said, that will give you a reason to pull the top end & get a peek at the real problem. Good luck!!
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Old 09-20-2006, 08:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Odds..

What are the odds that if the straw is in the crankcase that it would simply get hot, make a little red puddle of plastic, and cause no porblems?? I reconthat would be a pretty big risk since I intend to ride in some remote areas...Think I will get the engine out and on the table for closer inspection. Are all engine parts available(new) for a '95 500 trail fan ? I,ve spent a good bit of engine time on a polaris 400 sportsman, guess this will be similar with 2 holes! Tony
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Old 09-20-2006, 05:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes, everything is still available new (OEM and aftermarket). If it was my sled I'd probably run the damn thing...
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Old 09-22-2006, 08:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I dont know how you could've seen the rings from the spark plug holes. Especialy when the pistons wouldn't move.

Its glad to hear that you got it to turn over but it probably was the rings froze to the cylinder. Even if you pulled it over a few times after you got it to turn over and looked inside my guess is that there wouldn't be any marks from the rings on the cylinder.
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Old 09-24-2006, 07:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This sounds stupid but a younger guy i know had the same thing turns out the brake was locked up on it and he thought that it was siezed.
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Old 09-26-2006, 08:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Its Free !!

After 3-4 days of turning the engine over with the pry bar in the clutch it suddenly(with less than 1 revolution) freed up and seems to be fine- has good compression, have not tried firing it yet as I am working on some other issues with it(adding an elec start kit, for one). Plyr2, I never said I could see the rings..and it was turning over very stiffly, so it was not rusted fast- possibly junk under the rings ?? I think I will take the chance on the straw in the crankcase unless other isuues arise. Fired up the '97 xlt and it sound great. Will do carb work after I get some guality cleaner. Thanks for the replies...
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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tarnold, my bad i thought that it would not turn over at all and you were saying that you could see the cylnder and they looked fine. I couldnt figure out how yuo could see where the rings were without the piston moving at all. Cool to hear that its working for you.
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