Newbie info needed prior to purchase - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

babzog · 01-09-2013, 10:40 AM

Hey folks,

First post, looking for a first sled. Don't have a ton o cash to spend (any more than a couple G will raise eyebrows) but would like something reliable and fun for that cash. Obviously looking at an older sled. Will be mucking around in the fields by the house, maybe take a run up the road/ditch, take it through the bush and perhaps even on a bona-fide trail.

In the year 1995-2000 range, what brands and models will give me the most happiness? Or perhaps a better Q, which ones should I avoid? I don't care about max power/speed if the sled is finicky and similarly, I'd give up an uber-reliable sled if it was too heavy or under-powered to enjoy in the powder.

Please go easy on the sledding jargon as it's all new at this point. Triple tuned wobblegongers with a D88 gibblepot means nothing to me right now, hahaha.

iluvponies · 01-09-2013, 01:37 PM

I am in the same boat as the poster. I am looking for some advice as well.

babzog · 01-09-2013, 01:51 PM

I've got my eye on a 96 Arctic Cat ZRT600. 6000km, newer track, triple pipe. Comes with trail pass paid up. Asking $1600.

Another was a 98 MXZ 670 but someone already has dibs. $2k firm price on it.

Whatcha all think?

joshkidner · 01-09-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babzog

I've got my eye on a 96 Arctic Cat ZRT600. 6000km, newer track, triple pipe. Comes with trail pass paid up. Asking $1600.

Another was a 98 MXZ 670 but someone already has dibs. $2k firm price on it.

Whatcha all think?

The zrt isnt a bad deal. I like the mxzs too. For powder your gonna want to know how deep the lugs (paddles on the track) are. I would suggest over an inch.

jordandakota · 01-09-2013, 03:17 PM

For that much money, you should be able to find a 98-00 ZR 600 EFI. That would be my primary choice. Other makes/models of sleds that would be similar are like a Polaris XC 5-700 depending on how much motor you want, or a Ski-Doo MXZ and they offer the same engine sizes as well. Sounds like for the kind of riding you want to do, stick with a twin (2 cylinder) sled. The ZRT is a triple and will have all kinds of top end power, but they're not the best sleds for powder and ditch banging.

babzog · 01-09-2013, 03:31 PM

"that much money", being $1600 or $2k?

Are the twins more torque-y than their triple cylinder cousins (is that why you make that suggestion)?

jordandakota · 01-09-2013, 04:16 PM

Between probably $1500-2000 you should be able to find any variant of what I posted above. Twins have a lot better bottom end to midrange response and power delivery is much more constant. Triples are sluggish off the line and have a crazy powerband once you reach a certain rpm, and they're quite a little bit heavier than their twin counterparts. Triples aren't necessarily any less reliable, but there are 3 cylinders you need to worry about and it's an extra spark plug every time you change them. The ZR's are an excellent sled, and Cat's EFI sure is a good system. They run great and it's a very reliable setup.

joshkidner · 01-09-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordandakota

Between probably $1500-2000 you should be able to find any variant of what I posted above. Twins have a lot better bottom end to midrange response and power delivery is much more constant. Triples are sluggish off the line and have a crazy powerband once you reach a certain rpm, and they're quite a little bit heavier than their twin counterparts. Triples aren't necessarily any less reliable, but there are 3 cylinders you need to worry about and it's an extra spark plug every time you change them. The ZR's are an excellent sled, and Cat's EFI sure is a good system. They run great and it's a very reliable setup.

Triples are not sluggish off the line but definately are a little slower until a certain rpm

rgoers · 01-09-2013, 04:47 PM

Triples are more maintenence, I'd avoid them as a noob.

Any sled in the late 90's to early 00's should be available for that cash (under $2k). Brand doesn't matter as much as condition of the sled - i.e. how the previous owner took care of it. When you find something in your price range, Google it (+ "problems") and see if it's prone to having issues. If it passes that test, make sure there's an appropriate dealer nearby so you can get it serviced, buy parts, ask for advice, etc. Last of all, take someone with you who knows sleds when you go to look at it. Four eyes are better than two, just as two heads are better than one!!! You'll need someone to smack you back to reality, and keep you from buying a lemon... just in case.

I picked up a '97 Summit *WITH A TRAILER* for $1000 2 years ago... planned on selling the Summit, because I really only wanted the trailer... but I have used the Summit for the past 2 seasons without having to put a penny (except for gas and oil) into it. Almost plunked down twice that for a '03 Z580, but my son noticed some very big issues with the skid that I had completely missed seeing. That's why I say bring someone with you...

joshkidner · 01-09-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgoers

Triples are more maintenence, I'd avoid them as a noob.

Any sled in the late 90's to early 00's should be available for that cash (under $2k). Brand doesn't matter as much as condition of the sled - i.e. how the previous owner took care of it. When you find something in your price range, Google it (+ "problems") and see if it's prone to having issues. If it passes that test, make sure there's an appropriate dealer nearby so you can get it serviced, buy parts, ask for advice, etc. Last of all, take someone with you who knows sleds when you go to look at it. Four eyes are better than two, just as two heads are better than one!!! You'll need someone to smack you back to reality, and keep you from buying a lemon... just in case.

They are only more maintenance due to extra cylinder and carb to go out. Not any less reliable or harder to fix. Its like saying a v6 is more reliable than a v8.

**BC_Dan** · 01-09-2013, 05:43 PM

The Wobblegongers only came with the D84 gibblepot. It was the Dopplebangers that came with the D88. And only on the custom model

Welcome to the forum!

If you're looking at Cats, the suspension got a lot better in the 97 models (especially the ZR.)

What is out there for sale really drives your buying decision. Pre-season there were tons of sleds, but with a good snow year, a lot of sellers have pulled back and are riding. I would also consider a Gen II Polaris (1998-2001 or so) with a 600 twin. They are very reliable with a dependable chassis/suspension. Youi should be able to find one that is decent in your stated price range.

Good luck in the search!

babzog · 01-10-2013, 09:33 AM

But, how do you tell the D84 from D88? They both use the same case and the wobblegonger is mounted inside. LOL

Took a peek at the ZRT last night. It was very clean, started first pull. I'd want to give it a more thorough inspection, but it seemed alright. Nothing broken. I did speak with a friend last night who confirmed what you folks had been suggesting - the ZRT would be a bit too aggressive for what I want to do.

Also considering a '99 ZR 700 ($2k), a '98 ZR 600 (says Limited edition on the handlebar) ($1750) and a '01 ZL 600 ($2k).

A recent add appeared for a '00 Arctic Cat Pantera 580EFI, $2200 and an '01 Yamaha SXR 500 with rebuilt engine for $2100.

There are a few early 90's (93, 94) with trailer for $1300-$1400. Mostly Ski-doo formula. Some mid-90's MXZ's (one is a 670) but they're also near or at $2k. Not seriously considering those unless there's a gem in there somewhere.

So many models, it's interesting to learn about them. Unfortunately, the only fellow I know who sleds, works nights, runs new Ski-doos and is always away for the weekend, sledding in the mountains. I'm basically on my own in the hunt, which makes it that much harder when I don't necessarily know what to look for. Thanks for all your help!

jordandakota · 01-10-2013, 10:23 AM

That '99 ZR 700 would be sweet! Is it EFI or carbureted?

**BC_Dan** · 01-10-2013, 10:30 AM

For the trails and your mentioned riding style, that ZL seems to be the best sled. The older sleds will have a lot less suspension travel. ZR's above 97 will have a really nice suspension, but are set up for fast, aggressive cornering. 600 AC engines have a lot less problems with piston skirt failure than the AC 580, if you have a 580 and it has 3000 miles on the pistons, replace them.

babzog · 01-10-2013, 11:13 AM

Is there a noticeable difference in fuel economy between the 600 and 700?

**RJ Gleason** · 01-10-2013, 01:40 PM

I personally would go with the Pantera 580 EFI or the 600 ZL.
Both will be great trail cruisers and get the best mileage of all that are listed.

Yes, there is a huge difference in fuel consumption between the 600 carbed engine and the 700 carbed engine.
The 700 is a hog, but it is also a torque monster with "yank your arms off" pull for start off to "OMG"!

babzog · 01-10-2013, 01:50 PM

Good info, very much appreciated. I've been poking around other areas of the forum and there's just so much to learn.

What kind of performance difference is there between the ZL and ZR sleds? Or, let me put it this way, is there enough Oomph in the ZL to widen the eyes a bit? How well will it keep up to bigger sleds?

**RJ Gleason** · 01-10-2013, 01:54 PM

The Zl would keep you happy, the difference is in the ride.
The ZR is a stiffer suspension better suited to big bumps and jumps, the ZL is softer and best for soaking up stutter bumps and cruising trails.

babzog · 01-10-2013, 02:25 PM

I called buddy about the ZL, says a guy is coming to buy it. Way it goes it seems - gotta be quick. Update - sold.

As far as running the ditches up and down the road, would the ZL still be alright or would it take too much of a pounding?

Also, what size engine should I try to zero in on - 500/600/700?

Josh Kidner · 01-10-2013, 02:57 PM

it would be alright. if it becomes too much of a hassle you can buy softer shocks for it, will cost a little bit more obviously. i think the ZL would be better, but the ZR would be ok. 500s arnt quite as fast (obviously) the higher you go the faster/higher acceleration you will get. 500 would be good for twisty trails but wouldnt keep up as well on straight shots. i would go with the 600, or even a 700 if you can get it for the same price.