Newbie info needed prior to purchase - Page 2 - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

steveg_nh · 01-10-2013, 03:06 PM

I just picked up a 2004 Yamaha SX Viper 700 triple for $2k. I'm finding lots of price variance depending on where you are. But I found looking around just locally I could find major swings in price. I'm very happy with the $2k I spent. Look around and be patient, so you don't get stuck with someone else's problem.

babzog · 01-10-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Kidner

it would be alright. if it becomes too much of a hassle you can buy softer shocks for it, will cost a little bit more obviously. i think the ZL would be better, but the ZR would be ok.

Did you mean that as written or should ZL/ZR be reversed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveg_nh

I just picked up a 2004 Yamaha SX Viper 700 triple for $2k. I'm finding lots of price variance depending on where you are. But I found looking around just locally I could find major swings in price. I'm very happy with the $2k I spent. Look around and be patient, so you don't get stuck with someone else's problem.

Well, there's the rub. I certainly don't want someone else's problem and like you, I see wild price swings. Someone wants the same money for a sled with over 17k kms as one of the same year with 1/3 that. I'd like to ride, but it'll do me no good to buy a lemon.

What are things I should check when inspecting a used sled (other than obvious damage beyond what could be considered normal wear and tear, excessive smoke, etc)?

steveg_nh · 01-10-2013, 06:45 PM

I didn't know much when I bought, but I know a lot more now thanks to this site, and some good friends.

Things I would have checked had I known (some I did check, but only the obvious ones like #2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 12):

1. Chaincase oil (how's it look?)
2. Track - is it all ripped up or in decent shape?
3. The track hyfax - look really worn, or pretty good?
4. Signs of grease around zerk fittings?
5. How's it idle?
6. Ask to see any maintenance records
7. Any obvious front end damage or new looking parts on an older sled?
8. Pull a spark plug - how's it look? Burnt? Fouled?
9. Remove the air filter in the airbox - any signs of mice? Pine needles, etc??
10. Look at both clutch sheaves. Clean? Signs of rubber (burnt belt??) Any excessive play in secondary? Could indicate just a loose chain, or a bigger problem.
11. If you can, prop it up and run it, how does it brake? How does it run with higher RPM?
12. All gauges and lights work?

Good luck!

ZL 500 · 01-10-2013, 07:29 PM

babzog,

If you plan on doing long trail rides I would try to look for a 2001 (or newer) ZL/ZR 500/600. They have the power vavles (I think it was 2001 they started having them!) and will get a little better gas mileage than a 98-2k. I have a '98 ZL 500 and get about 10mpg when riding trails. Drops right off when I start playing! And gas stops aren't around every corner/curve up there! from what I have read here, and on Arcticchat.com, stay away from the 700! IT IS A PIG as mentioned! A 800/900 will get better mileage than a 700!

The 98-99's (about 10g) had a smaller gas tank also, 2k being the larger (about 13g), then 2001+ (about 12) being slightly less than 2k.

Also, I noticed you are in Ontario. Try NOT to buy a sled with a NON-stock exhaust! Written law is a ticket if it is not stock! That doesn't mean every OPP will hand 1 out, but why take the chance! And I have been told they do trail side checks at times! If it LOOKS aftermarket, could be a ticket regardless of how loud(or quiet!) it is!

Good luck deciding!
Chris

Phaze · 01-10-2013, 08:06 PM

Another thing to add to steveg's list is, do a compression check. You don't want one cylinder reading 125 and the other 100. You're looking for equality.

babzog · 01-10-2013, 09:21 PM

Um, so-called "touring" sleds, ie: Ski-doo grand touring or Polaris classic touring. Are they more nimble than they sound or are they like driving a Honda Goldwing (ie: comfy but heavy and not very sporty)? There's a nice looking '01 Polaris classic touring 600 for $2300 not far from home.

rgoers · 01-10-2013, 09:25 PM

I technically still have a ZL550... very nice sled for most riding conditions. It you want something that's pretty fast and handles well, the ZL is a great choice. If you want something to beat the heck out of, the ZR would be a better choice.

**BC_Dan** · 01-10-2013, 09:29 PM

I have a 550 2-up, it's a touring sled. On the trails, that thing rocks, will hit 90 mph on some days, depending on the snow. It's a little heavy, but has a 136" track. If you are planning on doing a lot of powder or ditch banging, probably not the right sled. And most of the touring sleds come with very small lugs on the track, so off-trail is iffy in deep snow. They are still very capable, A buddy of mine used to ride a Ski-doo 2-up trail but he put a deeper lugged track on it. That thing was surprising how well it went.

**RJ Gleason** · 01-11-2013, 12:27 AM

The difference between sport and touring is this, softer suspension, handling will be nearly equal unless it is a longer tracked machine.

babzog · 01-11-2013, 09:36 AM

Thanks! I would check some of the more obvious ones (ie: if it's been broken, obvious signs of new parts, track ripped or worn bald, etc. Some of the other stuff I'd like a bit more info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveg_nh

1. Chaincase oil (how's it look?)
3. The track hyfax - look really worn, or pretty good?
10. Look at both clutch sheaves. Clean? Signs of rubber (burnt belt??) Any excessive play in secondary? Could indicate just a loose chain, or a bigger problem.
!

What are these parts? Some I've never heard of before now (What is a hyfax and how would I inspect it and pronounce it good or no good?) Chaincase - again, what is that (need some schooling on how the drive system is hooked up) and what are clutch sheaves and secondaries?

babzog · 01-11-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

The difference between sport and touring is this, softer suspension, handling will be nearly equal unless it is a longer tracked machine.

What is a normal track vs long track and what are the start/stop measuring points?

So, touring sleds are not necessarily heavier than their sport counterparts?

babzog · 01-11-2013, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL 500

A 800/900 will get better mileage than a 700!

That's crazy! Good to know!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL 500

Also, I noticed you are in Ontario. Try NOT to buy a sled with a NON-stock exhaust! Written law is a ticket if it is not stock! That doesn't mean every OPP will hand 1 out, but why take the chance! And I have been told they do trail side checks at times! If it LOOKS aftermarket, could be a ticket regardless of how loud(or quiet!) it is!

Good luck deciding!
Chris

I had no idea that there was such a law. How would a neophyte determine what is stock / non-stock? All look pretty much the same to me (black bellied-out muffler-like pipes).

Phaze · 01-11-2013, 10:50 AM

Here's how clutches work. This is page 2, go to page 3 also in the link:

HowStuffWorks "How Snowmobiles Work"

They don't show the chaincase. The secondary clutch is connected to a shaft which goes to the right side of the sled into the chaincase. In the chaincase is an upper gear splined on to the shaft from the secondary, which is connected to a chain which connects to a lower gear which is splined on to the driveshaft which spins the track.

Tracks are measured by the circumference. They basically start at 128" for trail riding and go up to 155"(I think they might have a 160" something) for the mountain guys and variances in between.

For trail riding, 128 or 136. Trail riding and some off trail, ditch banging, 136". No trail riding, 136"(better yet 144") and up....... At least that's my opinion....

When you go and look at sleds, try and take someone who already owns a sled and knows their way around it. They will help/keep you from getting burned on a bad sled/deal.

steveg_nh · 01-11-2013, 10:58 AM

Phaze explained the chaincase and basically the clutches. The sheaves are the "plates" that look like discs that tighten up on the belt to grab it. The primary grabs and tightens the belt on the secondary, which starts to spin the chain...

The Hyfax, also knows as sliders, are the plastic grooves the track runs along on the bottom of the track. They need to stay well lubricated with snow to stay cool, so they don't melt. If a sled is run on heavily packed trails or ice and has little to no snow on the sliders, they start to break down. If you do run on that type of stuff a lot, ice scractchers will throw chips of ice and packed snow onto the track to keep both the hyfax lubed and cool, and to keep your heat exchangers covered in snow. That's a requirement for a liquid cooled sled, so you don't overheat the engine.

**RJ Gleason** · 01-11-2013, 02:02 PM

No, they are not.
Standard short track is currently 121" with variations depending on year and brand to 128".
Two up sleds and some one up will have 133.5 [older Poo] or 136" [everyone else].
Then you start with newer sleds that may have 141" up to 163".
Anything over 141 is too long fro trail use as it will not turn easily at all, they are primarily intended for off trail/mountain use.

Phaze · 01-11-2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

No, they are not.
Standard short track is currently 121" with variations depending on year and brand to 128".

Yep, you're right. Sad thing is, I knew that. Not sure why I said 128". Had a brief brain malfunction...... Hopefully it was brief....lol

ZL 500 · 01-11-2013, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babzog

That's crazy! Good to know!

I had no idea that there was such a law. How would a neophyte determine what is stock / non-stock? All look pretty much the same to me (black bellied-out muffler-like pipes).

Thats what I have read anyway about the 700 vs 800/900.

As for the exhaust, most of the time it is pretty easy to tell an aftermarket can from a stock can due to the size/shape.

babzog · 01-12-2013, 12:09 AM

Is there a way to get an idea of the track length when walking up to a sled?

I checked out a zr600 tonight. All looked well, though buddy had started it b4 I got there. Fired right up.

. Only problem I could see (thing was clean) was a lack of oil in the chaincase. Oil on the dipstick but not even near the min full line. How much of a concern is that? Frankly, I like to see plenty of oil where oil should be but maybe it's no bggie. I don't know.

Thinking though, the seat on the zr is pretty short. I might be better off getting a 2up this year so I can take my young lad on the trails or into the bush and have him have a proper seat. It'll also give me a season to get some riding under my belt before jumping onto a sport sled. Just a random thought.

I think I might go check out an '01 Polaris classic touring 600 and '00 arctic cat panther 580 tomorrow. All things being equal (features seem in sync, though the Polaris does state it has reverse which would be useful getting it out of the overcrowded shack I sometimes try to call a shop), even price is close enough to the same, which would you choose - newest or one in particular?

full eyes · 01-12-2013, 12:32 AM

If you dont know alot about sleds find a friend or two who knows alot about sleds to go with you. Even if you have to pay someone a few bucks or so to look at it is better than throwing a couple thousand away. Where are you in ontario? Best of luck finding a sled.

babzog · 01-13-2013, 12:41 AM

After sleeping on the zr600, i decided to let it slide. The lack of oil did not inspire confidence nor did buddy ignoring mu request to start it cold when i arrived.

The Polaris was sold real early this morning. I was gonna check out an AC Panther but didn't feel like driving to Quebec today.

I did find an ad for a 97 zl 440 that was clean and had a lot of new parts (pistons, rings & bearings, rear shock, skid bearings, clutch buttons, seat cover. Checked it out and it did look dang good so it followed me home. Couple of questions which I'll post in the right forum.

Took it for a rip in the field. Took it a bit easy at first to get a trail cut but then I was giving it more. Doesn't take long to cover the length of a field! Haha. Parked my son in front of me and took him around, he liked that.

The fellow with the 440 reiterated much of what was said above, about the longer tracks being a pita on trails - won't turn. The added weight is no help in fields, I'd imagine as well.

I gotta learn to carve. Nearly tipped it making a corner. I didn't expect it to roll away from the corner. Stupid newbie! Lol