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Old 11-23-2012, 10:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
mat
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Ethanol and star tron

Hey there. As you all know ethanol is everywhere now a days, and it is increasingly hard to know what we are feeding our sleds. My sled requires less than 10% ethanol. So, I have two questions. 1 does anyone know if star tron or any other fuel additive for that matter actually work? And 2 would someone please tell me what exactly the problem is with ethanol in sleds? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Marinas still carry non ethanol and some of the busier gas stations will have a non ethanol pump. I haven't needed the additives to date. as to the other? I believe ethanol burns hotter

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Old 11-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A: the fuel quality with ethanol is far lower.
B: 2 cycle oils typically don't "mix" well with alcohol fuels.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i use star tron in every thing its the best stuff on the market it has enzymes that eat the alcohol in the fuel so it helps build up and gumming also stops fuel separation
thats what i run all day long
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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All sleds built before 2001 were built for non-ethanol use, as that's when it came onto the market. Star Tron and other additives keep the alcohol from separating out but do not lower the rating. The additives work well though.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The problems with Eth is that it takes twice as much of it as compared to Dino! To run straght eth instead of 200 main jets you would have to run 250 or 300! In 10% fuel most sleds are safe enoughly rich to be fine, in 20% mix it gets dangerisly close, add in a few snoflackes an bam melt down!
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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One big problem with alcohol fuels is that the alcohol is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water from the air. The alcohol can absorb some of the water, but at some point, too much water causes "phase separation" and the water and alcohol drop out of the gasoline mix and head to the bottom of the tank. The resulting fuel will have less octane rating, as the alcohol contributes to that. The resulting water/alcohol at the bottom of the tank doesn't burn and will cause hard starting and poor performance if you do get the engine started.

http://www.enertechlabs.com/fuel_pha...in_ethanol.htm

Another problem is that the alcohol is a good solvent and cleans everything. If there is sludge in your tank, it will clean the tank and send all the junk to your fuel filter and carbs.

Alcohol fuels don't last as long as non-alcohol fuels, so if you filled your tank to start the summer, don't expect the fuel to be fresh. Startron and other products help that, but the fuel still goes bad pretty fast.

As was mentioned previously, if you can find un-oxygenated fuels, use those in your sled. It may cost a bit more, but helps you avoid a lot of problems.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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thanks guys so maybe it is a good idea to run star tron if im running ethanol fuel? thanks again
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have been checking around some, and it seems even shell doesn't have unoxidized premium. Guess I'll have to run star tron and hope for the best. This is maddening though.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Welcome to the new normal! Minnesota (Tim Pawlenty) was pushing for 20% ethanol in fuel, supposedly it was to be mandated for 2013 (he signed the bill). Thankfully, Dayton has it pushed back to 2015.

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Old 11-24-2012, 03:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I use star tron in my 2 stroke boats and my 4 stroke boats and I also use it in my 2 stroke indy. I think it works great. I don't have to service my marine engines nearly as much. I haven't had the snowmobile long enough to tell. It could be different by state but On the marinas around lake winnipesaukee in NH a lot of the marinas just add star tron to their fuel now that non ethanol fuel is harder to get. I love the stuff and think its great. I've also been told my my marinas to run mid grade fuel in my boats because for some reason the ethanol burns better? Idk if its true but it hasn't hurt my engines yet so I do it


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Old 11-24-2012, 04:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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VP has unleaded AND ethanol free, however, you are going to pay a LOT for it. I think their T4 fuel is 100 octane.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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In my area, we can get Unleaded with no ethanol. I always run that in my stuff. Never had a serious fuel-related problem.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The funny thing is that ethanol can make some serious power. I get Car Craft magazine and they were doing horsepower adders for E85. They had a blown SBC and were making close to 1000hp because E85 runs so cool that it isn't prone to predetonation and spark knock. They doubled the jet size to do it, though.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Oh yeah look at the Top fuel dragsters!
I have a Kawi KLR and something Green is growing in the fuel tank? and I cant get it out!
Some kinda fungus from the fuel?
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I run e85 in my race car and it is a whole different carb also for this fuel and we are making 800 HP. My GF has a 2000 artic cat z440 and at WOT it stumbles and if I close the throttle a bit the stumble goes away with this new 10% ethonol gas is it possible it is lean at WOT maybe a larger main jet?
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallengineguy View Post
The funny thing is that ethanol can make some serious power. I get Car Craft magazine and they were doing horsepower adders for E85. They had a blown SBC and were making close to 1000hp because E85 runs so cool that it isn't prone to predetonation and spark knock. They doubled the jet size to do it, though.
I've run e85 in my turbocharged subaru, e85's nickname is rocket fuel! The effective octane of e85 puts it around 110 or higher, so I can run an insane amount of boost and timing compared to regular pump gas. Drawback is that you have to spray lots of fuel in to make power. Although for e85 my mileage hit is almost non-existent, maybe 1mpg drop, which is well within the margin of error.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Good stuff!
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Buddy of mine is big into dirt track racing, they've got a 400 chevy running pure alcohol and he said temps rarely get over 180. He never told me EGT's but I would imagine they're pretty low. Pretty radical setup as far as the carb goes on it though. Anybody ever tried to tune a trail sled to run E85?
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordandakota View Post
Buddy of mine is big into dirt track racing, they've got a 400 chevy running pure alcohol and he said temps rarely get over 180. He never told me EGT's but I would imagine they're pretty low. Pretty radical setup as far as the carb goes on it though. Anybody ever tried to tune a trail sled to run E85?
At least on my car, on 91 octane pump gas, I run about 1650 degrees exhaust temp. On e85 I'm around 1500 or so max. So a fairly large reduction.
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