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Old 12-07-2012, 08:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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'77 El Tigre 5000 won't stay running

Hi everyone, I've had some problems with a '77 El Tigre I picked up 3 years ago and never got around to figuring the problem out. This will be a little lengthy, because I want to cover all troubleshooting so that it will possibly help you guys narrow down what I need to look at.

The sled starts up fine, and when I've taken it out for a ride it seems to be OK until it has been ridden for a couple of minutes, or has warmed up. It will slowly die out or bog to a stop and then cut off. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to get it back up and running a few seconds later and get a few more seconds of riding out of it, when other times I have to wait 5-10 minutes for it to want to start back up and run until it does the same thing again.

It has always seemed that packing the heads with snow seems to get it to start back up sooner after it gets to the point where it cuts out and won't immediately start back up. If I pack the heads with snow for a few minutes, it fires back up much sooner than just waiting it out.

The top-end was supposedly recently rebuilt when I got it. I have thoroughly cleaned the carbs numerous times and have visually synchronized the carbs the best I can. It has had fresh gas in it (mixed with a little more oil than the original owner's manual recommended) and I have sprayed WD-40 around the crank seal while it was running and did not experience it revving up any higher on its own.

I shot this video last winter when the problem seemed to get worse. It got to the point where I can do a cold-start on it and it won't stay running for long at all, and at the end of the video it got to the point where it would not start back up at all (I tried plenty more times after I stopped recording).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=cQ1CL6YBonw

The only things that come to mind is maybe the CDI, or the fact that the sled does not have an airbox. I bought the sled without the airbox (didn't even realize it was missing when i bought it) and the previous owner made no mention of it missing the airbox, and claimed it was running great when I asked him general questions about the sled the day I went to buy it. But I'm wondering if maybe the carbs still have the factory jets, and having no airbox is leaning out the mixture too much.... but at the same time I don't think that scenario would cause the engine to not want to start back up for several minutes after it dies out.

A buddy of mine suggested that maybe the CDI is fine until it gets a little warm, and then an internal circuit is opening at that point due to the CDI possibly going bad. That sounds logical. I can't tell if it's the factory CDI or if it is a replacement. This reminds me, though-- I have a spark tester (plugs in between the sparg plug and the plug boot) and if I recall correctly I think I tested the sled with it at one point and it was still getting spark when I tried spnning the engine over after it would not start. I might be wrong on that though, I'll try that tonight to see.

Any other suggestions in the meantime??? Thanks a bunch!
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It could be your stator. They get temp sensitive if the start going bad or you could be getting "vapor lock".
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you very much for the response. I'll try to locate some instructions on testing the stator as well as the CDI. By "vapor lock", are you suggesting that perhaps snow (water) is entering the carburetors because of not having the filter? I was thinking this the times that I took it out in the snow, but there was absolutely no precipitation when I shot this video last Winter. Thanks again.

Any other suggestions/feedback is totally welcome!
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I noticed that you had to keep the choke on full to keep it running and then it took several pulls to start again.

Have you checked the fuel pump?
A rebuild of that may solve the problem.
Also check that all the lines [particularly the pulse line] are clamped.
Also you should use reinforced fuel line from the engine to the pump to prevent collapsing of the line.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ Gleason View Post
I noticed that you had to keep the choke on full to keep it running and then it took several pulls to start again.

Have you checked the fuel pump?
A rebuild of that may solve the problem.
Also check that all the lines [particularly the pulse line] are clamped.
Also you should use reinforced fuel line from the engine to the pump to prevent collapsing of the line.
Thanks RJ, great advice. I'll look into making sure the lines are clamped and see if the pump-to-engine line is kinked/collapsed at all. Any way to test the pump? I suppose I can just see if it to continues to push fuel out as I yank on the starter cord, right?
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Un hook a line from the carb and pull it over, the gas should squirt a couple of inches from the line. If it does not then you should consider a rebuild of the pump.
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'90 Wildcat Project in progress.

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1980 AC Pantera (donor engine to the 90 wildcat)


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Old 12-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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And it may just dribble and fuel could be going past the diaphram and get into the case, one one cyl?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Vapor lock is when the fuel gets hot to the point to where it turns to vapor inside the carb or fuel line. Are any of your lines too close to the engine? Does the engine seem to get hotter than normal? Where is your fuel pump located? I had a 79 pantera 5000 free air that use to vapor lock once in a while. Hot fuel is bad. Rj and Kc gave you some real good advice to. Just start ruling things out.
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