Suggestions Please. - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

SubarusRmyThing · 11-16-2009, 11:20 PM

First, let me start with im VERY mechanically inclined. VERY.
So im not afraid of a large, and hard project. thats what i live for.

and ive owned pretty much every playtoy on the market. quads, street bikes, boats, cars, trucks, go karts, waverunners, jet ski's. whatever, etc. You name it. I've had it.

But its time for me to expand to the only toy i havnt got to touch yet. A snowmobile

and with the extremely early winter were getting already. Its got me jumpin to try something new.

and ill be up front, i know jack squat about sleds. So im sorry for any noobness in advance!!

2nd, please dont suggest i go find a good used running one or something like that. If i have the 1-3 grand in cash spare right now, i wouldnt be posting this thead, id be out riding a nice sled. But im in the process of buying a house. im FLAT ass broke.

But I just found a 97 arctic cat Jag DLX on my local craigslist for sale for $200 bucks. Which is a price i can live with and afford at this time. Machine looks gorgeous, been well cared for, but the motor went tits up. its a 440cc air cooled.

I called the guy to see what he had to say about it.

First thing he told me was he stole the chain case off it when it died and used it on another sled.
5 minutes on google for me, and it doesnt look like to big of a deal. Im asumming its really not? how expensive are these on average? i havnt taken the time to price check it yet.

Next he told me the piston totally blew apart, so thats the main issue with the motor and what put it out of commission. He said he wouldnt suggest rebuilding it. But I always like to get my own opinion on that. If its not to bad, and the sleeves are in okay shape. im just going to hone it out, drop in a weisco piston kit, and GO!

BUT, if it really is a toast motor and has no hope. I have a few questions.
Next i appologise, im sure there are lots of threads like this with the same questions. But i just dont have the time to browse right now. So a nice helpfull answer would be much appreciated

How difficult are Bigger motor swaps in these?
what abou swapping to a Liquid cooled motor?
And how hard/cheap is it to just find another running 440 motor?

i have no idea how these things operate under the hood, but once i finally get my head underone im sure ill figure it out. So im curious how easy it is to get maybe a different brand of motor in there.

And finally...

And thing special i should look for when i go to check this sled out here tomorow or the next day? Specifially anything in the drivetrain, or whatnot? Give me the noob advice i need it! lol Thanks a lot guys.

**BC_Dan** · 11-16-2009, 11:34 PM

for the cost and effort, if the engine is not rebuildable, find a liquid cooled sled that runs. It's easy to spend a grand on a 200 dollar sled and still not get it on the snow or running right.

If you can find a used 440 engine cheap, it might be worth the effort. But finding a good used motor can be pretty spendy. Some go for 500-1000 bucks, so you tack on the initial 200 with that money, you can find something with more power that's already running...

Sometimes even FREE sleds are the most expensive ones you will ever own

SubarusRmyThing · 11-16-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Dan

for the cost and effort, if the engine is not rebuildable, find a liquid cooled sled that runs. It's easy to spend a grand on a 200 dollar sled and still not get it on the snow or running right.

If you can find a used 440 engine cheap, it might be worth the effort. But finding a good used motor can be pretty spendy. Some go for 500-1000 bucks, so you tack on the initial 200 with that money, you can find something with more power that's already running...

Sometimes even FREE sleds are the most expensive ones you will ever own

hey hey fellow oregonian

i really dont have the 1+ grand to be looking at a running one or i would. To be honest, unless i can get by with a 150 dollar rebuild kit, i wont even be aiming to hit the snow this winter.

I need to buy a house bad, and all the closing cost, and down payment and inspecition fee's and all the other bullcrap it cost just to get into a house, is draining me, and im sure for the next year things will be sorta tight on the wallet while i adjust to twice the payment im making now.

So my hope is to buy it for 200. and if a piston kit is all it needs, well ill splurge and buy it and ride it. But other wise ill put away 100-200 a month (which is something i can afford for a year) and over the winter, spring and summer, fall. slowly rebuild it. if it ends up costing me 1 grand for a whole new motor, well im okay with that. $1200 bucks for a good used sled with a new motor is still a good deal in my book. Even if i can get a faster one for the same price, Its the fact its something i can afford at my own terms. ie, if i bust another transmission in my subaru this month, i dont have to worry about my sled payment owed to the dealer. So that makes it worth it to me.

I hate being strapped under payments from a dealer, and i refuse too now days. If you have to loan it, you cant afford it. Just what i live by. But that came from a hard lesson learned when i was a teen ager lol.

But thank you very much for the reply.

**BC_Dan** · 11-17-2009, 01:25 AM

Good on ya for paying up front for toys! I do that too

The good part.. for 200 bucks, if it has an intact suspension and other parts, if you need to get your cash out of it, parting it out should easily get your cash back...

Who knows, you may find a similar sled that's been wrecked but has an intact engine. Keep your eyes open, craigslist and ebay are your friends!!

**smallengineguy** · 11-17-2009, 05:01 AM

Welcome! You need to g olook at it andsee if the piston REALLY exploded and did serious damage to the bottom end, etc or just blew that piston. It sounds like if he already started stripping it, it may be definite junk. A liquid cool conversion is a HUGE job, and NOT worth it. A 500 fan should bolt right in, though.

**kccats** · 11-17-2009, 06:39 AM

Yep thats what I would do! There are alot of 50 Fan motors out there and or crashed sleds! Look at Cougars and other Jags as well as Panthers! Going lq isn't an option! Are you sure that Jag has a free air? Or Fan! They did make a free air 440 back in the 70's!
Most any engine is rebuildable, even with a hole in the cases! It's just a mater of cost!
So let me go threw worst case options! Crank work, complete new rod and seals (no bearings) $500 with bearings up to $2000! (hopefully the bottom end is good) Seals only are easy and about $100 set! Jugs are plated and can be repaired,welded and replated, about $200! OEM pistons are about $50 ea (wisco is more and not really worth the money for this sled!) and a gasket set is like $50! So it really does depend on what IS wrong! Also it would be a good time to do a bit of porting too!

**RJ Gleason** · 11-17-2009, 08:00 AM

That model is a fan cooled engine, easiest fix may be to look for another engine unless you are really patient and are willing to take the time to fix it right.
The good news is that there are a lot of those motors out there and they can be had fairly cheaply.
I would look at maybe finding a 500 to stick in there in place of the 340/440 that it came with.

SubarusRmyThing · 11-17-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Dan

Good on ya for paying up front for toys! I do that too

The good part.. for 200 bucks, if it has an intact suspension and other parts, if you need to get your cash out of it, parting it out should easily get your cash back...

Who knows, you may find a similar sled that's been wrecked but has an intact engine. Keep your eyes open, craigslist and ebay are your friends!!

ya up front is the only way to go ive learned. Nothing like paying for a 9 thousand dollar gixxer 750 when you just turned 18, and it got wrecked in 2 weeks

But yeah, every thing is in tact. Looking at pictures you wouldnt even know it wasnt a running sled ready to go. Its strictly just a blown motor, minus the chain case because he needed it for another sled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallengineguy

Welcome! You need to g olook at it andsee if the piston REALLY exploded and did serious damage to the bottom end, etc or just blew that piston. It sounds like if he already started stripping it, it may be definite junk. A liquid cool conversion is a HUGE job, and NOT worth it. A 500 fan should bolt right in, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccats

Yep thats what I would do! There are alot of 50 Fan motors out there and or crashed sleds! Look at Cougars and other Jags as well as Panthers! Going lq isn't an option! Are you sure that Jag has a free air? Or Fan! They did make a free air 440 back in the 70's!
Most any engine is rebuildable, even with a hole in the cases! It's just a mater of cost!
So let me go threw worst case options! Crank work, complete new rod and seals (no bearings) $500 with bearings up to $2000! (hopefully the bottom end is good) Seals only are easy and about $100 set! Jugs are plated and can be repaired,welded and replated, about $200! OEM pistons are about $50 ea (wisco is more and not really worth the money for this sled!) and a gasket set is like $50! So it really does depend on what IS wrong! Also it would be a good time to do a bit of porting too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

That model is a fan cooled engine, easiest fix may be to look for another engine unless you are really patient and are willing to take the time to fix it right.
The good news is that there are a lot of those motors out there and they can be had fairly cheaply.
I would look at maybe finding a 500 to stick in there in place of the 340/440 that it came with.

Thanks for the responses guys, thats what i was looking for.

to me its a simple 2 stroke. they are NEVER dead lol. They are just always needing to be rebuilt. So when someone tells me, man the motor is toast i wouldnt rebuild it... in my eyes im like yeah right. Your just lazy and you have 3 other sleds, so you dont care.... I cant imagine it being that bad. But we will see.

But if motors are out there too in the $500 dollar range, ill have to see which is going to be a better rout to go. I hope to go check it out tomorrow night if things go good. Its about an hour drive from me. so yeah.

Thanks for the replys everyone.

My last questions was, is there anything specific i need to check out on the sled when i go look at it, drivetrain wise?

**BC_Dan** · 11-17-2009, 08:41 AM

About the only other real critical thing to look at is the PTO side driveline bearing. That bearing has a tendency to go south on a lot of sleds. With the chaincase already out, it's an easy thing to do to drop the suspension (4 bolts) and remove the driveline and replace it. For a long life, new bearings on the driveline and jackshaft are a must.

If it has Fox shocks, that's a plus, as they are rebuildable. Tip the sled on it's side to check the track for torn lugs and the skis for good carbide. You can tell a lot by looking at the bottom of the sled. If the bulkhead under the engine is bent or torn, it's a pretty big fix and spendy to repair.

Handlebars should turn easily with no binding, suspension should compress and rebound. If it has a 9-post Arctic Cat primary clutch, that's a plus; the Comet 6 post is more prone to needing rebuilding.

Good luck!! Projects are fun if you have the time and ambition!

SubarusRmyThing · 11-17-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Dan

About the only other real critical thing to look at is the PTO side driveline bearing. That bearing has a tendency to go south on a lot of sleds. With the chaincase already out, it's an easy thing to do to drop the suspension (4 bolts) and remove the driveline and replace it. For a long life, new bearings on the driveline and jackshaft are a must.

If it has Fox shocks, that's a plus, as they are rebuildable. Tip the sled on it's side to check the track for torn lugs and the skis for good carbide. You can tell a lot by looking at the bottom of the sled. If the bulkhead under the engine is bent or torn, it's a pretty big fix and spendy to repair.

Handlebars should turn easily with no binding, suspension should compress and rebound. If it has a 9-post Arctic Cat primary clutch, that's a plus; the Comet 6 post is more prone to needing rebuilding.

Sweeet thanks for the tips!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC_Dan

Good luck!! Projects are fun if you have the time and ambition!

Ambition is the one thing i dont lack. I could post so many links that would blow your mind on my projects lol

**RJ Gleason** · 11-17-2009, 09:24 AM

And you can find the parts numbers here;
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SubarusRmyThing · 11-17-2009, 09:29 AM

kick ass! thanks

**kccats** · 11-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Good luck and keep us posted!

SubarusRmyThing · 11-17-2009, 01:03 PM

i think im gonna go pick it up tomorrow night!

jKsled · 11-17-2009, 02:00 PM

i bought my skidoo for 175, and the polaris for 400 bucks, see them in my sig. i bought both from people who didn't know much about small engines. they couldnt get them running. the polaris needed a new battery (40 bucks) and it ran. the skidoo needed.... nothing? just new plugs and it fired right up even with old old gas. both are in excellent condition too, the polaris looks brand new even 17 years old. if you look around, there are awesome deals out there.

SubarusRmyThing · 11-19-2009, 12:34 AM

Thanks for all the replies and help guys. Much appreciated. I ended up turning it down. The whole time i was told the sled was in great shape. HA yeah not even close. an the block was very very damaged (he had it in pieces) figured i better wait. Plus i just sold my turbo, so i've got about 800 bucks now to spend. Going to see if i can find a better sled.

But thank you guys for all the help!