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Old 03-02-2010, 04:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
Mr X
 
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2000 ZR 600 EFI top speed problems

I have a 2000 ZR 600 EFI that currently tops out at 60 mph. Two weeks ago I replaced the clutch arms, pins, and spacers. All of the replacement parts were stock from Cat. I believe the weights were 58.5 grams and the spring existing spring is yellow with a white stripe. After doing so the thing ran like a top. Mash the throttle it stayed around 8000 RPM on the tach to 90 mph where I ran out of trail. I think it had more left, but I didn't have a stretch long enough to find out. Now last weekend 8000 RPM is 60 mph and if I give it more throttle the tach jumps to 9000 RPM, but the sled doesn't move any faster. For a while last weekend I was riding and if I let off the throttle the tach would jump back to 7000 RPM and then I could go faster past 60 mph, kind of like a ratcheting effect. However, even again last night, at 60 mph it will not move faster and any additional throttle just burys the tach. Any hints?
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like your clutch doesn't want to fully engage, try cleaning the clutch. Also maybe it's your belt, if you have a good spare try that too.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Update

Last night I removed the belt and ran the engine to observe the primary clutch. It closes fully, but seems to be a little sticky when it opens causing it to slap back open a bit. I do have a new belt to try, but I really didn't want to destroy it if there was another problem. What is the best method for cleaning the primary clutch. I read the new member post stating just using brake cleaner and an air compressor. Is that all it really takes?
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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For a quick cleaning, yes.
Blow out as much of the belt dust as will come out and then use brake cleaner in behind the spider and on the center shaft.
Make sure that it is dry before putting the belt back on.


Take a sharpie and make a straight line from the center to the edge of the sheaves of both units. Run it and see how much of the marker lines are rubbed off. This will tell you which needs the work to get full shift out again.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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58 is too heavy maybe 48 on the weights? Check your center to centers should be 12.2 (12 1/4" works) and that the blet is riding atleast an 1/8" out of the driven!
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My mistake (typo)

Thank you for seeing my typo. I replaced the clutch arms with the factory 48.5 gram weights. The cat dealer said they were correct for southern Minnesota and that was the weight I took out. I had to replace them as they had worn through the replacable bushings.

Another good point you have raised is the belt position in the driven clutch. My new belt is flush with the edge of the driven clutch when I slipped it on last night. My old belt is exactly the same flush with the driven clutch. However, on our ZL it sticks up just like you say. What is the correction?
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Recent updates

Thank you all for your recommendations. I took several of your suggestions and tested them last night. The results are as follows:

The distance between the two clutches (bolt center to bolt center) is approximately 12.25”.

I installed my new factory Cat belt (0627-020) last night and noticed that it just barely sticks out of the driven clutch. However, with the new belt installed I was able to get 75 mph at 8000 rpm. I still had a lot of throttle left, but giving it anymore would send the tachometer past 9000 rpm and not attempt to move the sled any faster. Still this is a big improvement of 60 mph at 8000 rpm.

I used a marker to draw lines on the clutch pulleys. The driven clutch looked good as it had only about ½” of the line showing very deep in the pulleys. The primary left about 1” of the marker line. However, half of the 1” line was light suggesting the belt made it there a few times, but the other half was very dark. Judging from the shine on the primary clutch pulleys, the belt used to make it all the way up only leaving about ¼” of the pulleys dull. I’m thinking this is pointing to a primary clutch issue in that it is not properly closing? However, with the belt off I can watch the primary clutch completely close? I also noticed some pitting on the shaft that may be causing some of the problem?

Maybe I’m just misunderstanding something here, but I thought typically snowmobiles were set to utilize all of the engines horsepower limiting the rpms through the clutching. Having a lot of wasted horsepower through limited throttle use is a problem I assume. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Also, any additional direction would be well appreciated. I’m thinking the primary clutch will need to be removed. Is there a place for getting instructions to remove, disassemble, clean, inspect, and reassemble with the necessary tools? I believe this is a stock 2000 ZR Cat clutch.

Again, thank you all!
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Now you make the adjustment to the secondary to prevent the engine from running up past 8400.

If you look at the outer plate, you will see where the spring is anchored.
It should be in the middle hole. You need to move it to the next hole toward the engine to bring the peak rpm back into range.


What this is doing is putting more tension on the secondary spring and making it hold the belt a little longer. It will also improve the back shift for slowing down too.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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the sled work good before so it,
sounds like the clutches are sticking Dissassemble and clean the secondary first, and spray down the primary with wd40.
Once they run soomthly.
If you have a lot of botttom end torque ,you could gear up a tooth or so.
This would make your clutches run in a better range for top speed.

Last edited by mmgg; 03-04-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Clarifications:

RJ,

Are you thinking the 1" marking left on the primary clutch is normal? Should I be tearing this apart, or do you think adjusting the driven clutch will compensate?

Also, what do I need to adjust the driven clutch spring. I can verify it is in the center hole as I looked at that last night. If I use the parking brake and remove the center bolt on the driven clutch will I need a spring compressor? I have never had one of these apart as you can tell and don't want parts flying off.

Thank you,
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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As you move the secondary spring, it should change the peak rpm by 200 rpm+/- a bit.
I would try different settings first and get the peak into the right range (8200/8400rpm)
first.
Then take another look at how the belt is running in the units.


When I did my clutch, it went from 8200 rpm to over 9000 peak.
I then moved the spring from the middle hole (#3) to #1 which was too much, changed it to #2 and it was perfect. The back shift is so fast that I rarely ever have to use the brake too.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
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RJ Last Question For Today I Promise

RJ,

I want to make the driven clutch spring adjustment tonight if possible. However, I'm concerned that I do not have the proper tools.

I assume you losen the driven clutch center bolt using the parking brake to assist holding it in place? When you remove the center bolt is the spring under a load that will make parts fly apart, or rapidly turn out of position? Please just let me know the basic steps you took to adjust your spring so I may better understand.

Thank you agian,
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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It is easiest to do with the clutch off the sled as you need something to hold the two halves together when you remove the outer plate.
It will not fly apart as the spring pressure will hold the plate torqued against the studs.
Place the clutch on a couple of 4x4 pieces or anything solid that will give you enough to hold the pieces together.
Remove the 3 nuts and twist pull the plate off.
Inspect the plastic buttons and the ramp faces while you have it apart.
This would also be a good time to clean the bushing in the center (be careful not to lose the shim washers in there).
Wipe it down with any good degreaser an reassemble dry.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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One Final Thought

RJ,

Are you clamping the two halves together and then clamping the whole thing to the 4X4's? If it is hard to get the spring pre-load tension do you need to stand on the clutch while turning it for proper pre-load? Again, I have never done this so I'm just looking to understand what to expect. My biggest fear is that I mess it up and cannot ride this weekend.

Thank you
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Not difficult at all.
Hands are strong enough.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Check out this site. It shows how to work on Polaris clutches. AC secondaries have 3- 1/2" nuts that hold the secondary together instead of the snap ring. When you remove the 3 nuts, just be careful that you use one hand to compress the outer sheave till you get the last nut off.
http://wiki.bssd.org/index.php/Secondary_Clutches
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Final Post of Concluding Notes

Again, thank you all for your advice.

Really, taking the secondary clutch apart is really not that big of deal. I spent more energy worrying about it than what it took to actually make the spring anchor point change.

I spend a great deal of time trying to remove the secondary clutch from the sled and could only move it about ¼”. Unfortunately, I think I’d still be working on it this morning right through the night so if someone has some good advice I’d like to hear it.

To move forward I grabbed some spring-loaded wood clamps (giant cloth pins) and used them to hold the secondary sheaves together on the snowmobile. While I was removing the three nuts I noticed the back plate wanting to push out, but you could easily hold it on the studs with one hand. Removed the plate, moved the spring one point forward towards the engine and turned positioned the back plate holes to the original studs to ensure the same amount of spring pre-load. Again, this is not that much tension so it can easily be done by hand.

The running test: While warming the machine up it felt like a lost a little low-end torque. However, as soon as you go into the throttle it improved back to being very snappy mid-range. Once to proper temperature I was able to use the throttle wide open. The tack peaked at about 8400 rpm and the speedometer showed 95 mph. I ran the test three times in a row with very similar results.

Just for kicks I removed the new belt and threw my old one back one. Doing this decreased the torque all the way through from bottom to mid-range, but otherwise felt very acceptable. Once again, I held the throttle wide open and the tack would peak near 8600 rpm and the speedometer showed about 85 mph of three runs. If you are solely out for performance a new belt would be well worth the money. However, I rarely do more than 80 mph on the trails so I couldn’t be happier even with my old belt.

The pulley markings: After adjusting the secondary spring I once again drew lines with a marker on the pulleys. When I was done testing the machine I could see only about a ¼” of the marker line left at the top of the primary clutch and about the same deep into the secondary.

Again, I couldn’t be more satisfied today as I can now use all of the horsepower. I’m sure there are more tweaks I could do for more, but having the entire throttle available once again is just fine with me. Thank you all again. RJ, I really appreciate your consistent advice and help.

Jason
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You are most welcome.

I was thinking that I should do a video "how to" for this procedure too.
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1980 AC Pantera (donor engine to the 90 wildcat)


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Old 03-05-2010, 01:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Secondary Clutch Removal

RJ,

For future knowledge do you have a good way to remove the secondary clutch unit? I used a rubber hammers, tried prying a little with a screwdriver, and wiggling it by had. Again, I could make it only move about 1/4". Someday I'd like to take it off and clean it properly.

Thanks again,

Jason

P.S. A video would be very nice, but fearing the procedure like I did is useless as it is very simple once you understand how easy it is.
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