Here are the symptoms, can you help with any answers? - Page 2 - Snowmobile Forum: Your #1 Snowmobile Forum

mwinters · 11-20-2009, 10:31 AM

Since the head gaskets are just an outer and inner o-ring, can I get away reusing those?
Obviously I need to get new base gaskets, but they want $50 just for those 0-rings!

Arctic Addict · 11-20-2009, 11:48 AM

As long as the o rings look good, you can re use them. To be on the safe side, compression test it once you put her back together and compare it with the numbers you had prior to the tear down. I've seen o rings leak before but usually you can tell by looking at them if they should be replaced.

COOKSTER · 11-20-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwinters

Since the head gaskets are just an outer and inner o-ring, can I get away reusing those?
Obviously I need to get new base gaskets, but they want $50 just for those 0-rings!

Correct me if Im wrong anybody, but I dont think the head has to come off to remove the jugs??
I bought a complete top end gasket kit (Winderosa) for my 98 ZL 500 a few weeks ago and it cost me $55.00 CDN. Are you buying o.e. parts?

mwinters · 11-20-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COOKSTER

Correct me if Im wrong anybody, but I dont think the head has to come off to remove the jugs??
I bought a complete top end gasket kit (Winderosa) for my 98 ZL 500 a few weeks ago and it cost me $55.00 CDN. Are you buying o.e. parts?

No, I'm getting the same full Winderosa kit for the ZR. I was really weighing cost vs time waiting. I can pick up the base gaskets and inner / outer o-rings local for $120 o.e, or just the bases for $75. On ebay I found both the Winderosa and Wiseco full kits, for $60-$68 but I obviously have to wait 3-4 business days. However, $60 saved and a bunch of ZR gaskets with no use for the time being seemed like a decent move.

So the ZR break down is on hold for now, I might head out to the garage tomorrow to tear it down and see what we have. I'm going to look for a hole in the crank case, but I really believe there is just a bunch of insulation jammed into the, reed valve would it be? Insulation couldn't have just been sucked in to the engine right? There must be something there.

COOKSTER · 11-20-2009, 01:50 PM

Yes, I would expect that the reeds are where the restriction is.
At this point I wouldent expect that there is a hole in the block.

**RJ Gleason** · 11-20-2009, 01:58 PM

Mouse house in air box would though.

mwinters · 11-20-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

Mouse house in air box would though.

Wait a mouse house in the air box would cause a whole in the crankcase?!?
If I'm reading this correctly, how so?!?

**RJ Gleason** · 11-20-2009, 04:11 PM

In a previous post you mentioned insulation in the crank case. I was just pointing out that as a possibility for it.
The openings/gaps would allow those nasty critters in and they are known to use anything available to make nests. (one guy had a whole package of twizzlers in an engine because of this)

A plugged up air box can cause all kinds of poor running problems.

mwinters · 11-20-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

In a previous post you mentioned insulation in the crank case. I was just pointing out that as a possibility for it.
The openings/gaps would allow those nasty critters in and they are known to use anything available to make nests. (one guy had a whole package of twizzlers in an engine because of this)

A plugged up air box can cause all kinds of poor running problems.

Ohhhhh I get ya.

So I do have a new problem...
I cant get the jugs to separate from the crank, I have been hitting it with a rubber hammer for a freaking hour and it hasn't even separated a bit.

I have removed the 8 base nuts, and 4 flange nuts. Also I have removed the t-stat and exhaust headers. There is nothing there!!!!! Even the break down manual says tap lightly and lift, yeah right.

Any ideas on how to separate it? I hate how Arctic Cat has the jug sit on permanent studs. Freaking pain in the ass.

I dont want to start smashing it

BIGTRUCKBALLIN4 · 11-20-2009, 07:15 PM

Yeah,over night pour some transmision fluid down over the jug studs,transmision fluid is a great detergent,will free a seized engine,used it many times.Just let it soak,it will work.Be patient,might have to go out a couple times tonight to dump more fluid on studs,while trying to wiggle the jug,if it doesnt wiggle dont worry,that transmission fluid will find its way down the studs,just drench em in fluid.

Arctic Addict · 11-20-2009, 07:24 PM

Sounds like its a little seized on the studs, a little PB Blaster on the studs at the base and soak time will do wonders. I agree with RJ, sounds like a mouse made a house in your airbox. When the sled was turned over, the mouse nest got sucked into the carb and made it to the reeds. My guess is you tried to open the throttle while giving her a pull, otherwise the nest would have been blocked by the slides.

mwinters · 11-20-2009, 07:36 PM

Yeah I have some liquid wrench so I'm going to keep soaking them through the night. If they are not free by tomorrow, I'll go buy some transmission fluid.

I bought the sled not running, so the nest was there before I got it. I pulled the airbox apart today and this nest was HUGE! It filled half the air box with fiberglass insulation. I even found some insulation in the carbs when I cleaned them.

Thanks guys you rock!

BIGTRUCKBALLIN4 · 11-20-2009, 07:38 PM

Well thats probably what it was the whole time,no air,air+fuel=boom. good luck man

mwinters · 11-21-2009, 10:05 AM

Well the Liquid Wrench didn't work after soaking all night, I even went down through the night a few times to reapply. I'm going to go get some transmission fluid and try that for the day.

If these don't work, what next? I mean, this sucker is on there!

**RJ Gleason** · 11-21-2009, 10:31 AM

Apply some heat to the pots.
Use a heat gun or hair dryer and heat the cylinder part only. Then when you rap it with the mallet, hit it up neat the top to apply enough lateral force that should break loose the gasket.

mwinters · 11-21-2009, 02:01 PM

I'm letting them soak through the day, they have come apart a small amount on the exhaust side. When I pulled the nuts on the carb side, they were rusted right in and took some Liquid Wrench and muscle to get them free. I'm assuming that this is whats giving me so much trouble.

I didn't remove the cylinder head bolts because there is no way they go down and bolt to the crank. Is this much of a fight normal on a sled this age? I'm thinking it has never been rebuilt or, it was rebuilt but long ago?

**RJ Gleason** · 11-21-2009, 02:13 PM

It can be if the engine has never been apart before.

mwinters · 11-21-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Gleason

Apply some heat to the pots.
Use a heat gun or hair dryer and heat the cylinder part only. Then when you rap it with the mallet, hit it up neat the top to apply enough lateral force that should break loose the gasket.

I do have a bad ass heat gun which I'm going to try tomorrow. The jugs still are seized right in. They seem to move a bit, but I just don't get how this can be this hard.

I'm going to try the heat early in the morning. I will let you guy know how it fairs.

mwinters · 11-22-2009, 02:39 PM

So I think I have figured out the problem...

All the studs except the inner 4 on the carburetor side, have broken free from the jug. I know because there is a visible gap between the stud and jugs and, PB's readily and easily flows down through. Now the other studs I'm talking about, are the same studs that took some major muscle to wrench off due to oxidation. There is no visible hole between the studs and jugs, just a rusty mess.

I'm very certain that these bolts are preventing me from lifting the jug. Also when I tap the jug with a rubber mallet, in the area that the studs are free, you can see it separate just a bit because PB's spits out every where.

So do I just have to keep tapping and working oil down in? I don't think it's gasket that it preventing me from lifting the jugs. I did see that Loc Tite has a product called "freeze and release" where it freezes the bolt and shrinks it so you can get penetrating oil down in. Think this will help? Any one use this?

Thanks!

**RJ Gleason** · 11-22-2009, 03:32 PM

Never tried it, should work though.